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Forums - General Discussion - Ben Stein to take on Darwinism on April 18

Parokki said:
timmytomthegreat said:
This movie is about Neo-Darwinism not being allowed to be questioned in the educational community.

Science is always open to new ideas. The perceived dogmatic nature of evolution comes from how there is absolutely no scientifical sound alternative. Our understanding of the details improves all the time, for example with concepts like genetic drift and gene flow getting introduced long after Darwin's death.

I suppose it could be argued that the attempts of certain groups to introduce their religious views into science has made the scientific community overly cautious, and now any suggestion that is too different gets treated with more skepticism than it deserves, but so far I've seen nothing to suggest this is happening.


Actually i'd argue the opposite.  This has nothing to do with intellegent design.  However i've found that science tends to be very resistant to change once it's decided something is right because the scientists who are getting funding for their experiments are very afraid that if one of their building blocks gets pulled away they'll have to start all over and everything they've known since they started in the field will be turned upside down.  Most due this subconsiously but it does happen.

To change perception of something you usually need to keep beating on peoples heads repeating and showing the truth over and over again until you hit a breakpoint and a large group of people finally come to agree with you because they finally can't support the lie anymore with credibility.

 



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Coca-Cola said:
^^then you should watch this documentary. it's got science!
This is not a religious film.
I don't think many people even heard of this movie - there was no extensive marketing.

Also, you said that you need valid science that disputes evolution theory.
Intelligent design is also a theory. Why not listen to what these scientists have to say? and why hide their research from education community?

 Actually I don't think Intellegent Design has ever passed the Hypothesis.



Science is resistant to change once it's decided something is right because there is a huge pile of evidence saying something is right, and until something else destroys that evidence or has an even bigger pile of evidence in it's favor, there is good reason not to change.

I think it was Richard Dawkins that said "all scientists want to disprove accepted theory in order to make a name for themself". If somebody could actually disprove evolution, he would be a god (no pun intended). If somebody, or some group was capable of that, they would do it and then flaunt their evidence for the entire world to see. Science isn't resistant to change so much as it is skeptical of new or unproven ideas...which is what makes science, science.

But I'm just ranting.



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damn, I just read that "six things in expelled" article, that is sickening, but I figured the movie would be borderline propaganda.

One of the most popular "anti-evolution" books out there is one called "Life:How did it get here? By evolution or by creation?" published by the Watchtower society, and it is an absolutely horrific example of ignorance and propaganda. The book barely has anything to do with evolution (or at least the anonymous writers don't understand evolution in the least), takes quotes out of context, has terrible metaphors that have nothing to do with evolution (if a car is left in the wilderness does it become a better car???!?!), and is all and all an absolute joke of a book. But it is presented in a clear, professional manner and sounds very scientific with lots of numbers, statistics, and technical terms so that the reader comes away thinking that they now understand the debate of evolution, and are educated on the "theory" (one of the arguing points is that it's not a fact, it's a theory! The THEORY of evolution!!!!). But in reality they've just been fed a big spoon of bullshit with a cherry on top.

I kind of figured this movie was going to be the same thing, especially when I read luinil talking about how scientists must have alot of faith if they are proposing that aliens are the ones that created life on earth (does the movie really say that?). But reading that article shows it really is just another ridiculous attempt at propaganda by people with an agenda to try and get non-science religious beliefs taught in science classes.

 

lol, actually there is an entire website dedicated to showing the propaganda of the movie

http://www.expelledexposed.com/

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Good lord, This is just ridiculous. So anywho, ben stein had little to do with the movie he was just a hired voice for the film. The movie was planned and written by Kevin Miller who claims his research for the film came from books such as "From Darwin To Hitler" which is a propaganda book in and of itself. His blog also has a religion section where he talks about how emotionally moving it was to be yards away from the pope. In his blog he shows his ridiculous bias with the comment 

 "...no one is arguing that Darwinism is a sufficient condition for Nazism, but it is a necessary one, because Darwinism provided the philosophical and scientific justifications for pre-existing prejudices and hatreds."<---(if anyone here believes this I will explain how stupid of an argument that is)

Also to quote ben stein (When asked what prep work he did for the movie):
"[I did] Some [reading to prep for Expelled]. I read one book cover to cover, From Darwin to Hitler, and that was a very interesting book--one of these rare books I wish had been even longer." 

 

Anybody that thinks that this is a sound, thought provoking documentary has got to open their eyes. This is a propaganda film that uses extremely dirty underhanded methods to create the illusion of controversy. Go to http://www.expelledexposed.com/ for both a very thorough refutation of the claims in the movie, but also a look at how the movie was made and who made it. It's disgusting, it's intellectual vandalism, and it's crap like this that is hurting our education system.



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Ugh, reading this guy's blog, his responses to people writing to him on his blog, reading reviews of this movie and the detailed walkthrough of the movie is making me sick. This is propaganda of the lowest kind, and this Kevin fellow is a disgusting snake.



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They actually paid people to go see this movie! 3.4 million isn't that impressive when they are actually paying Christian schools to take their students to see the movie.

in the “Expelled Challenge,” the makers of Expelled offer to pay Christian schools by reimbursing them for their tickets based on how many students attend. On their website, described as a “site specifically designed for students, teachers, pastors, youth leaders and organizations to provide useful tools and resources to promote the ideas surrounding this highly anticipated film”, the following enticement appears:

“What is the Expelled Challenge?

To engage Christian schools and home school groups to get as many students, parents, and faculty from their school/group out to see Ben Stein’s new movie Expelled: No Intelligence Allowed (opening in theaters April 2008).

Each school/home group that registers through the link below and submits their ticket stubs will be eligible for a donation as funds permit, but the school that submits the most ticket stubs will win a donation of $10,000!”

It remains to be seen how many schools have taken up the Expelled crew on their offer, or how many donations “funds permit”. However, offering to pay people to see their film seems to be, at best, a bad business model. It is, however, an excellent way to encourage a large turnout for the first weekend’s take.



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Expelled is a pioneer of the "loss leader" model of moviemaking CONFIRMED



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The_vagabond7 said:
Science is resistant to change once it's decided something is right because there is a huge pile of evidence saying something is right, and until something else destroys that evidence or has an even bigger pile of evidence in it's favor, there is good reason not to change.

I think it was Richard Dawkins that said "all scientists want to disprove accepted theory in order to make a name for themself". If somebody could actually disprove evolution, he would be a god (no pun intended). If somebody, or some group was capable of that, they would do it and then flaunt their evidence for the entire world to see. Science isn't resistant to change so much as it is skeptical of new or unproven ideas...which is what makes science, science.

But I'm just ranting.

Every scientist wants to disprove an accepted theory, but very very few want someone else to disprove it.

Often times making scientists very ressistant to change even when there is plenty of proof that disproves the norm... which in many cases doesn't even have much proof. You can see a lot of this in the studying of the universe.

It's more then just needing proof.  You can often have proof and shout it directly at people and they won't listen.

It's also really prevelant in social sciences... even more so because while you can prove something you can't do it as neatly.  You can have statistics on your side everytime you run it and others do, yet the majority will cling to "common" sense and take bribes to make halfasses studies.