By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Microsoft - Microsoft's New YouTube Policy - A Step Backwards

fireburn95 said:
Kerotan said:


because if people don't play their games they get less sales. MINECRAFT has sold a shit ton because of youtube. ame with cod, gta, the last of us and many many more. 


I am guilty of not buying beyond 2 souls because I was satisfied with the complete story watched on youtube. QD never made a penny off me. Why should I enjoy content for free that cost QD millions to make? Why should gamer_letsplayxXx make money off a game he is playing and recording?

It's perfectly reasonable when a company wants to make money off their property from people who don't play their games, but still benefit from the content. hundred of thousands watch WD telltale and probably dont buy it after because the story is complete.

Both sides have every right to do that. You see an ad. You have the right to ignore it. Even though that ad/product took millions to make. Just like your game sale. You decided if you wanted the game from a written article, on a website. And that site is making money from that article. Same process.



Around the Network
Kerotan said:

MS are getting free advertising for the lets plys and other videos such as funny/best moments or a plethora of other types of vids like in game easter eggs, funny glitches, secrets, tips and tricks. Or even people analysising a game trailer they release. 

Games like The Last of US became a cult hit due to guys like Pewdiepie and many others playing them. Sure you will get a lot of people who don't have a ps3 watching it and never buing it but it has a huge effect on people with the console and people who just need 1 big reason to buy it. And 99% of these people won't watch a walkthrough with nocommentary. They subscribe to pewdiepie because they like him and watch the episodes to see his reactions. 

I work in this industry and it's a well known fact many gaming companies pay huge money to youtubers to play their games. and it covers almost every genre under the sun. 


It doesnt MATTER that it is 'arguably' free advertising. It's their game that someone is potentially experiencing for free and money is being made off their hard work.

Microsoft didn't sign an advertising deal, so they can claim all the money, since they could legally say "This video made ad money because people watched it for the game we published"

Would PewDiePie get 2 million a year if every video was purely his dramatic reactions? No, no one would watch that, so it's both the reactions, and moreso, the game, that people tune into.

And even morals, ethics and code aside, at the end of the day, a game has the same legal rights as a movie. Microsoft have chosen to pursue those legal rights, and hell, smart of them, no one is gonna not upload halo 5 gameplay because microsoft are taking a percentage.



archer9234 said:
fireburn95 said:
Kerotan said:


because if people don't play their games they get less sales. MINECRAFT has sold a shit ton because of youtube. ame with cod, gta, the last of us and many many more. 


I am guilty of not buying beyond 2 souls because I was satisfied with the complete story watched on youtube. QD never made a penny off me. Why should I enjoy content for free that cost QD millions to make? Why should gamer_letsplayxXx make money off a game he is playing and recording?

It's perfectly reasonable when a company wants to make money off their property from people who don't play their games, but still benefit from the content. hundred of thousands watch WD telltale and probably dont buy it after because the story is complete.

Both sides have every right to do that. You see an ad. You have the right to ignore it. Even though that ad/product took millions to make. Just like your game sale. You decided if you wanted the game from a written article, on a website. And that site is making money from that article. Same process.


Those are coverage, those are ads. This is gameplay of a game someone worked on and spent their own money making and publishing. I'd rather reward the maker of the gamer than the person who plays the game and records their face, and clearly so do microsoft.



fireburn95 said:
archer9234 said:
fireburn95 said:
Kerotan said:


because if people don't play their games they get less sales. MINECRAFT has sold a shit ton because of youtube. ame with cod, gta, the last of us and many many more. 


I am guilty of not buying beyond 2 souls because I was satisfied with the complete story watched on youtube. QD never made a penny off me. Why should I enjoy content for free that cost QD millions to make? Why should gamer_letsplayxXx make money off a game he is playing and recording?

It's perfectly reasonable when a company wants to make money off their property from people who don't play their games, but still benefit from the content. hundred of thousands watch WD telltale and probably dont buy it after because the story is complete.

Both sides have every right to do that. You see an ad. You have the right to ignore it. Even though that ad/product took millions to make. Just like your game sale. You decided if you wanted the game from a written article, on a website. And that site is making money from that article. Same process.


Those are coverage, those are ads. This is gameplay of a game someone worked on and spent their own money making and publishing. I'd rather reward the maker of the gamer than the person who plays the game and records their face, and clearly so do microsoft.

Well this argument won't really be cleared, till someone goes to court and play throughs become fully sanctioned by fair use, or not.



fireburn95 said:
Kerotan said:

MS are getting free advertising for the lets plys and other videos such as funny/best moments or a plethora of other types of vids like in game easter eggs, funny glitches, secrets, tips and tricks. Or even people analysising a game trailer they release. 

Games like The Last of US became a cult hit due to guys like Pewdiepie and many others playing them. Sure you will get a lot of people who don't have a ps3 watching it and never buing it but it has a huge effect on people with the console and people who just need 1 big reason to buy it. And 99% of these people won't watch a walkthrough with nocommentary. They subscribe to pewdiepie because they like him and watch the episodes to see his reactions. 

I work in this industry and it's a well known fact many gaming companies pay huge money to youtubers to play their games. and it covers almost every genre under the sun. 


It doesnt MATTER that it is 'arguably' free advertising. It's their game that someone is potentially experiencing for free and money is being made off their hard work.

Microsoft didn't sign an advertising deal, so they can claim all the money, since they could legally say "This video made ad money because people watched it for the game we published"

Would PewDiePie get 2 million a year if every video was purely his dramatic reactions? No, no one would watch that, so it's both the reactions, and moreso, the game, that people tune into.

And even morals, ethics and code aside, at the end of the day, a game has the same legal rights as a movie. Microsoft have chosen to pursue those legal rights, and hell, smart of them, no one is gonna not upload halo 5 gameplay because microsoft are taking a percentage.

you know that legally you are right. Some publishers are smart enough to let it happen though because they know the benefits. EA and Activision prime examples. Ubisoft maybe too. Sony are all for it and I've personally dealt with people from SOny looking to get YouTubers to play Planetside 2 for them when it was in beta. EA paid all the COD guys to come and play Battlefield 4. 

End of the day they have every right to claim these vids or remove them but they will only hurt themselves. 

 

EDIT:

The end game is nobody makes vids about "insert game". Game loses a lot of hype and publicity. Other games prosper. Money from claimed videos dwindles due to lack of new uploads from popular youtubers. Game sells less. 



Around the Network
archer9234 said:

Well this argument won't really be cleared, till someone goes to court and play throughs become fully sanctioned by fair use, or not.


Microsoft went to youtube, asked to be included in the split, youtube agreed, thats enough for them.



fireburn95 said:
archer9234 said:

Well this argument won't really be cleared, till someone goes to court and play throughs become fully sanctioned by fair use, or not.


Microsoft went to youtube, asked to be included in the split, youtube agreed, thats enough for them.

Didn't know this. That is a lot more fair than what Nintendo does. But I still want a real descison on play videos.



so what is the point of the video sharing features then if they can't be shared on youtube? edit: without all of these weird rules



fireburn95 said:
archer9234 said:

Well this argument won't really be cleared, till someone goes to court and play throughs become fully sanctioned by fair use, or not.


Microsoft went to youtube, asked to be included in the split, youtube agreed, thats enough for them.


google take 45% of the revenue off the bat. SO they have plenty of room for sharing some of that. 



fireburn95 said:
binary solo said:

Perhaps because youtube videos and the like are actually more like advertising for which MS (and Nintendo) don't have to pay a dime. So the question is why can't youtubers, who put is a decent amount of effort to make their videos, be given a reasonable amount of license and make a buck from these games since they are advertising the games for the publishers and platform holders?

 

 


We're dealing with too many variables here. It's not always advertising, sometimes it satisfies a persons want, they watch the story, they never buy the game.

And even if it is advertising, so what, it's still their game which they made, they coded from the ground up, they own the ip, they made all of the art assets and they paid for a team of 40 composers to create original music.
The kind of work that goes into a game is nowhere near the kind of work that goes into a commentary video of gameplay. Hell, you can do it for absolutely free with shareFactory and a ps camera.

Every business has a level of job security, unfortunately for commentators there's is very low, because the video footage features content that they do not own. Microsoft make something, they want their money for it, and deserve it too.

Irrelevant. Just because you have the legal right to do something or demand something, doesn't mean it's always in your best interests. And if something is not in your best interests and you do it anyeway that's your business unless it is causing harm to someone else. Then it becomes morally and ethically questionable. In all likelihood the net effect of LPs and similar videos is financially positive for publishers because the sales that are generated from views are greater than the sales lost from people deciding they got everything they wanted from passively watching a full LP playthrough. If it is assumed that sales are positively affected by Youtubers then your argument holds no water. The rights holder IS getting their money for it.

You know when corporations sue each other for patent and copyright violations the courts normally throw the cases out if the plaintiff can't actually demonstrate harm. In this case it's likely the corporations are in fact benefitting from what youtubers and streamers are doing. Imagine a publisher taking a youtuber to court, and the youtuber being able, though some sort of (hypothetically possible) complex analysis to demonstrate that the net effect to the publisher was a $1000 increase in game sales revenue? The judge would tell the publisher to GTFO of their court and stop wasting the court's time.

It's a slightly different story if a youtuber is trashing a game. People who want to tell the world a game is a PoS have to be very careful how they use any copyright or trademark material because it is a fairly simple thing to be able to claim that the rights holder suffered harm from the unauthorised use of their IP for the purposes of turning people away from the game. Of course rights holders have to be careful of throwing stones because  there is an entire industry (reviewers) built around critiquing games, and publishers give reviewers reasonable license to use game content in reviews without demanding editorial control over a review. The calculus being they take the rough with the smooth and in general having reviewers is better for sales than not having reviewers.

Reviewers make their money from other people's IP just like Youtubers. Do game publishers demand a cut of the ad or subscription revenue reviewers make from reviewing games? 

And yes, you can create and post videos very simply and cheaply. But you won;t become a successful Youtuber and be able to give up your day job if you just post videos of you playing a game. Youtubers who gain millions of subscribers are not lazy arses who are totally living off the hard work of others.



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix