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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Done With Final Fantasy

VXIII said:

As for me, I respect people preferences, but FF is more of an experience as a whole rather that one picked element. Every little element plays a part into making that rpg fantasy experience. 

That is fair. Although, surely the last bit isn't about FF games, it's about RPGs in general and that's my issue. If I liked all RPGs in general, the changes the franchise made might not be much of an issue but I don't, I like FF (Well mainly in terms of JRPGs).

WorldBreakerHulk said:

But the ff series is always pushing the graphics to new levels. If it's not the best looking game during its release then it's easily one of the best ....

.... I don't see anything wrong with them being the pinnacle of innovation. the junction system is very very different from materia and i love that change. The funny thing is if the developers don't innovate then they're just milking the franchise and the gullible fanbase keeps eating that rehash ie CoD, if the developers tries new things then they're alientating their fanbase ie FF. 

Iirc you can go back to the places you've visited in ff13. I know for sure that you can backtrack in ff13-2 just like in ffX. 

The gameplay in ff13 imo is not that bad, at least you still use magics late game.;) What I hate about it are some of the characters. How many times does snow want to remind me about the word hero, I want to slap vanille everytime she opens her mouth and i want to stab hope dead especially in the 1st half of the game. Lightning is cool, she kinda reminds me of squall that is until *spoiler?* the whole change of attitude late in the game.

edit: now that i think about it, squall also had a change of attitude late in the game.

FFXIII looks good now, still, it'll look good forever. I can't think of a single game on PS3 that comes close to how well graphically finished it was.  I think they spent too much time on the graphics and not enough on the gameplay. I could only control my main party member... what? This is Final Fantasy, not ... Kingdom Hearts (strange I keep coming back to this).

I understand the FF games look good, it happens when you have massive budget but they weren't obssessed with the graphics like they are now. They are trying to make the graphics THAT good but we don't care about that. Back in PS1 era they had limitations and they work with those limitations but kept with the stables that made FF games and FF game. 

Junction and Materia systems were different, neither one is better than the other but they were still magic system whereby you used them in a self contained battle arena where I controlled all my party, made their decisions myself at a reasonable pace. This is what I feel the new FF lack, sure FFXIII had a version but it was a mess, 'auto-battle' was just the first part in the wrong direction, if I see a Bomb and it's on fire I assume myself that I need to use Ice, I know this, so why is the game making the decision for me?

Character's in FFXIII are a completely different subject, people could moan about those all day. Many consider Squall bad but he had character development. He adapted to his situation, grew over the game. The 'change' in FFXIII characters was them being emo for a certain time then a sudden realisation of truth, then the same character jsut with that realisation. Snow being the best example. 



Hmm, pie.

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The Fury said:
VXIII said:

As for me, I respect people preferences, but FF is more of an experience as a whole rather that one picked element. Every little element plays a part into making that rpg fantasy experience. 

That is fair. Although, surely the last bit isn't about FF games, it's about RPGs in general and that's my issue. If I liked all RPGs in general, the changes the franchise made might not be much of an issue but I don't, I like FF (Well mainly in terms of JRPGs).

Every little element in FF plays a part into making that rpg fantasy experience. 

Ture-based as well in not FF exclusive, it's also about RPGs in general.



IFireflyl said:

Everything since Final Fantasy X seems like a letdown to me. Final Fantasy X-2 gameplay was fine, but I hated the characters. Final Fantasy XII wasn't insanely horrible, but it's not the gameplay that I like. I'm not a fan of MMORPGs, so there goes Final Fantasy XI and Final Fantasy XIV. SquareEnix just keeps getting further and further from the classic games that people loved. I'm not saying nobody can love the current games (Final Fantasy XIII and on), but scouring the interwebs will show that Final Fantasy VII through Final Fantasy X seem to be the overwhelming favorites, but SquareEnix isn't making games like those anymore. I'm sorry to say it, but I think I'm done with Final Fantasy.


I'm in the same camp as you. I think that most people overlook the fact that after FFX, alot of key talent left Square to go elsewhere. Since FF12, even more people left. It's unrealisitc to expect the same art from a differnt artist. I think most of us who loved FF9 and FF10 just need to accept it and move on to something else. Or just play the old games until we get bored lol



IFireflyl said:


Bolded point one: This is where Final Fantasy has been (to me) lacking. The story in Final Fantasy XIII, for example, is convoluted/complex, and I didn't much care for it. Also, there was no "world". There was a giant hallway until Gran Pulse, and that was just a glorified Calm Lands (Final Fantasy X). There was no exploration. Final Fantasy X also had limited exploration, but at least you could go back wherever you wanted, and it had a lot of mechanics that still made the game (again, to me) great. Final Fantasy XIII, in my opinion failed on both of your points.

Bolded point two: Final Fantasy did evolve and innovate gameplay with each new title. The gameplay was "modernized" in a sense when they went to ATB, but you still had full control over all of your character's actions, and it was still a variation of turn-based. Also, Final Fantasy VII, VIII, IX, and X all sold more copies than Final Fantasy XIII. Sure, you can argue that they were out longer... but look at Final Fantasy XII. The only one of those games that Final Fantasy XII sold more than was Final Fantasy IX. Final Fantasy XII isn't stll on the shelves being sold (at least, not in any way that would make a dent on VGChartz sales). Just because it's new doesn't mean it's better. Final Fantasy X is the second-highest selling Final Fantasy game (without including the HD remake), and that came out about a decade ago. It sold almost a million more copies than Final Fantasy XIII, over 5 million more copies than Final Fantasy XIII-2, and almost 7 million more copies than Lightning Returns. Also, keep in mind that all three of those games had the advantage of being released on two consoles, and I added those console totals together. Even though Final Fantasy X was on a single console, it still sold better than every Final Fantasy game after it, some of which were released on multiple consoles to give them a better chance of selling. SquareEnix didn't need to change anything. They were doing just fine, and they lost fans when they changed what they wanted (my opinion).

Bolded point three: Perhaps. I suppose we will see.

You seem to forget that JRPGs used to be significantly more popular in the PS1/PS2 generations... the genre has become more niche now imo and FF is only one of very few successful JRPGs left. Surely this impacted XIII's sales (in addition to mixed reception from gamers, which also hurt its legs without a doubt). If anything, I find XIII's sales to be impressive with all that considered, especially since it managed to outsell XII and IX.

Another thing is that XIII being different is not what made it so unspectacular. I mean, sure it was different... but its weaknesses came from questionable design choices more than anything. For example, if the game had X's battle system, it would have still been criticized for its hallways and convoluted storytelling. Basically I think the game had too many problems that extended beyond the "new" things that the game tried to do. Frankly, I think it was doomed by a half-baked vision and hopefully Toriyama will not be woring on FFXVI.



FF changes every game so I still have hope every time one comes out.
For example imo:

FFIV: Great
FFVI: Fun
FFVII: Okay
FFVIII: Awesome
FFIX: Didn't play much
FFX: Awesome
FFXII: Great
FFXIII: Massive disappointment


I still have hope for FFXV through FFXVIII at least.



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Final Fantasy XV could better than ever if they alow us to use the Japanese dub.



Don't copy random editorials.

Final Fantasy is the one franchise that tries to tell the "big Stories". Their storytelling has become very mature, but that is something that many seem to ignore.

Final Fantasy XII had a great story... It was just a game that got rid of the idea of a "main hero" and tried to balance the importance of each characters somehow. It also wasn't a hero-Story... you actually were member of a small kingdom that lacked power to defend itself against a much stronger enemy. The characters were actually quite interesting, but they simply were not the everyday superheroes with no depth trying to beat some supervillain...

Final Fantasy XIII also had interesting characters and a very good story. It dealt with the philosophical topic of free will, with the concepts of gods and their power... It is a very difficult story well told.It is also a game, where your main characters are no "heroes". Actually, they are the public enemies...

If you ask me what the essence of the newer Final Fantasy games is... it is mature Storytelling dealing with philosophical dilemmas.

FF VII had big questions regarding nature vs technology. If you have "really" played FF7 you started to think about the possible impacts of abusing natural ressources, genetical engineering, etcc...

FF IX should make you think about the artificial Magicians... How they developed a human consciousness. It is a game about humanity...

FF X is a game about the impact of religious fundamentalism and how Religions can manipulate mankind. It is a story about individuals making sacrifices for the common good.

FF X-2 is a story about how things not simply end well just after a revolution. Every Revolution leeds to a power vacuum that leaves the question how it should be filled again... leading to a new struggle. It is a game that deals with the question of how people should find their way of living in the "new world".

Sometimes I got the feeling that Final Fantasy simply had to much success in the PS1 era. No matter what square will do, they will never satisfy the people.



VXIII said:

Every little element in FF plays a part into making that rpg fantasy experience. 

Ture-based as well in not FF exclusive, it's also about RPGs in general.

I'm getting lost in this. RPG fantasy experience is all you want. Then how about this, they make a first person turn based RPG based on Valkyrie Profile combat (with self contained arenas), then call it Final Fantasy XVI. Do you think the fanbase will be happy with that? It's got the RPG fantasy experience.

I can see where you are coming from but that just won't sit with everyone, not everyone wants just an RPG fantasy experience. They want Final Fantasy experience and KH, MMO or controlling 1 party member like combat just isn't that.

This is getting repetative. ... 



Hmm, pie.

The Fury said:
VXIII said:

Every little element in FF plays a part into making that rpg fantasy experience. 

Ture-based as well in not FF exclusive, it's also about RPGs in general.

I'm getting lost in this. RPG fantasy experience is all you want. Then how about this, they make a first person turn based RPG based on Valkyrie Profile combat (with self contained arenas), then call it Final Fantasy XVI. Do you think the fanbase will be happy with that? It's got the RPG fantasy experience.

I can see where you are coming from but that just won't sit with everyone, not everyone wants just an RPG fantasy experience. They want Final Fantasy experience and KH, MMO or controlling 1 party member like combat just isn't that.

This is getting repetative. ... 

True, it got repetitive after the first post actually, that's why I didn't quote and respond to every post :)

All that I'm saying that there are many little elements that are iconic in FF other than the battle system (which also has evolved and changed overtime). the result of these element is what makes the FF experience, not just one element. the general frame for all those iconic FF elements is a fresh gaming experience that is RPG and fantasy. Being a fantasy RPG isn't exclusive to FF, but neither is turn-based battle system which you define FF by.

Again, I understand your point. I'm just not convinced by your logic of what a FF should be.



VXIII said:

Again, I understand your point. I'm just not convinced by your logic of what a FF should be.

Weirdly enough, ditto. Well done us. I wonder if SquEnix know though.



Hmm, pie.