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Forums - Nintendo - Dromble: Dan Adelman Discusses Nintendo’s Culture, Third Parties, VC & More

Soundwave said:
The_Yoda said:
Soundwave said:
forest-spirit said:

And that's why I never supported the "Fire Iwata!" movement. Getting rid of one guy won't solve anything when you have that kind of corporate structure. It's harsh perhaps but someone at Nintendo needs to take one for the team and "get rid of" murder all of the senile old farts who are holding the company back.

They simply are never going to be able to overcome their issues because their corporate structure is such that they can't get out of ruts once they fall into one. 

 It would be far better if the issue really was centrally Iwata (though no doubt he is part of the issue, it's just that there are 10 other people at Nintendo also at fault). Then at least by getting rid of him you could see substantial change, but if the corporate culture is rotten to its core ... that isn't fixable. 

In a way though then what's happening to Nintendo now is pretty much 100% predictable. 

If they are so predictable then what do you see Nintendo doing in the next ten years?  If you are only talking about the here and now then that isn't a prediction it falls more along the lines of understanding cause and effect.


I mean the result is predictable, a company that conservative in a business like this ... well it isn't really stunning that they are having big trouble adjusting to changing market conditions. Especially a very conservative Japanese company trying to compete in what is becoming a Western dominated console business, both in terms of the consumer base (consoles is almost entirely for the Western audience now) and developer base. 


But to your point of Nintendo has to change with the times ..I agree they are behind the times in some things but Nintendo is doing something right, every generation their company turns a profit whereas Sony and Microsoft  gaming divisions lose money every generation.....You keep saying the gaming world ismore western focused but you are forgetting the point that Nintendo first party sells very well in all regions of the world ...not just in the east or the west ...as long as Nintendo First Party sells in the millions and makes a profit Nintendo will never panic or care ...they only care about profit not marketshare ....whereas Sony and Microsoft focuses on market share because they are more 3rd party based as far as profits are concerned and that's where a majority of their profits come from selling a lot of consoles to make 3rd party profit....It also says a lot about Nintendo as a company ,in which they can make and maintain a profit every generation with support basically from first party and no 3rd party...neither Sony or Microsoft could do that    ..just saying 



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tl;dr, Nintendo is too conservative.

It's run by old farts who are out of touch with the modern market.



Jay70sgamer said:
Soundwave said:

I mean the result is predictable, a company that conservative in a business like this ... well it isn't really stunning that they are having big trouble adjusting to changing market conditions. Especially a very conservative Japanese company trying to compete in what is becoming a Western dominated console business, both in terms of the consumer base (consoles is almost entirely for the Western audience now) and developer base. 

But to your point of Nintendo has to change with the times ..I agree they are behind the times in some things but Nintendo is doing something right, every generation their company turns a profit whereas Sony and Microsoft  gaming divisions lose money every generation.....You keep saying the gaming world ismore western focused but you are forgetting the point that Nintendo first party sells very well in all regions of the world ...not just in the east or the west ...as long as Nintendo First Party sells in the millions and makes a profit Nintendo will never panic or care ...they only care about profit not marketshare ....whereas Sony and Microsoft focuses on market share because they are more 3rd party based as far as profits are concerned and that's where a majority of their profits come from selling a lot of consoles to make 3rd party profit....It also says a lot about Nintendo as a company ,in which they can make and maintain a profit every generation with support basically from first party and no 3rd party...neither Sony or Microsoft could do that    ..just saying 

Blatantly false. Sony turned a profit with both PS1 and PS2, and maybe PSP but I'm not sure. They lost money on PS3 and I'm not sure how profitable PSV may or may not be, but PS4 is definitely profitable. We also don't know for certain that Nintendo will turn a profit  this generation, though if they menage to turn a profit this FY like they predicted, I doubt they'll have any more losses this gen.

And does your comma key not work or something



Jay70sgamer said:
Soundwave said:
The_Yoda said:
Soundwave said:
forest-spirit said:

And that's why I never supported the "Fire Iwata!" movement. Getting rid of one guy won't solve anything when you have that kind of corporate structure. It's harsh perhaps but someone at Nintendo needs to take one for the team and "get rid of" murder all of the senile old farts who are holding the company back.

They simply are never going to be able to overcome their issues because their corporate structure is such that they can't get out of ruts once they fall into one. 

 It would be far better if the issue really was centrally Iwata (though no doubt he is part of the issue, it's just that there are 10 other people at Nintendo also at fault). Then at least by getting rid of him you could see substantial change, but if the corporate culture is rotten to its core ... that isn't fixable. 

In a way though then what's happening to Nintendo now is pretty much 100% predictable. 

If they are so predictable then what do you see Nintendo doing in the next ten years?  If you are only talking about the here and now then that isn't a prediction it falls more along the lines of understanding cause and effect.


I mean the result is predictable, a company that conservative in a business like this ... well it isn't really stunning that they are having big trouble adjusting to changing market conditions. Especially a very conservative Japanese company trying to compete in what is becoming a Western dominated console business, both in terms of the consumer base (consoles is almost entirely for the Western audience now) and developer base. 


But to your point of Nintendo has to change with the times ..I agree they are behind the times in some things but Nintendo is doing something right, every generation their company turns a profit whereas Sony and Microsoft  gaming divisions lose money every generation.....You keep saying the gaming world ismore western focused but you are forgetting the point that Nintendo first party sells very well in all regions of the world ...not just in the east or the west ...as long as Nintendo First Party sells in the millions and makes a profit Nintendo will never panic or care ...they only care about profit not marketshare ....whereas Sony and Microsoft focuses on market share because they are more 3rd party based as far as profits are concerned and that's where a majority of their profits come from selling a lot of consoles to make 3rd party profit....It also says a lot about Nintendo as a company ,in which they can make and maintain a profit every generation with support basically from first party and no 3rd party...neither Sony or Microsoft could do that    ..just saying 


I never said they have to change with the times. In fact I'm beginning to think they are incapable of doing so. It's just not in them. 

Nintendo does have to worry about marketshare at some point though, you can't allow your marketshare to whittle down to nothing and still make good money. The Wii U is going to fall a country mile short of the GameCube and the 3DS is seeing its marketshare evaporate away like crazy as today's kids gravitate far more to tablets/smartphones. 



Jon-Erich said:
Everyone should read the whole article. It's actually a very interesting read. That being said, there are pros and cons to Nintendo's business approach. The good thing about it is a lot of people are on the same page and know what's going on, unlike at Sony where every division is treated like a company within itself and we end up with corrupt film executives who make more than the company CEO and having to introduce a $1200 MP3 player. Bad decision making like that won't happen under Nintendo. The bad thing about it is the lack of actual leadership. In Nintendo of America, Reggie Fils Aime should have the most say of wether something will get done or not. In Japan, Satoru Iwata should be the guy to put his foot down.

It has its pluses that aren't apparent here. Integrated vision means that you get a very holistic approach, which is why Nintendo rarely half-asses their lines in. Compare to Microsoft and Sony which will dabble in things and drop them like a hot potato if they don't pan out, Nintendo is slow to adopt things, but once they do, they're generally all-in on the concept. This can be catastrophic if the concept is a dud, but the reason why they did so well diving into the blue ocean is because the company was all-in, compared to Microsoft where you basically have Rare making Kinect games, and other devs only grudgingly putting in token Kinect features, if at all.

The trouble is that when you come up with a stinker, like, say, friend codes in 2005, then it takes you until 2011 to ditch discrete friend codes, and another year to ditch them entirely. Because you had to get everyone on board with the one idea and cannot quickly change course.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

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Even though N64 and GC had lower and lower install bases, there still was enough money being made, but now that's not the case: a LOT less games on Wii U (probably less games on 3DS, aswell), increased budgets, smaller market (mobile market influence) = less money to be made automatically.

Something really has to change within. And i think the change is already happening.
If you read the Q&A from their last investor meeting you'll see that change is already happening. Splatoon is a good exemple of that. Years ago, a project like that might never had been green lighted.

But this is what i am referring to (taken from question 7):

Iwata:
"When it comes to judging the future of technology and whether certain ideas have the potential to become great entertainment, a few people who have been with Nintendo for many years have been taking on these roles at the company. It is inevitable, however, that everyone becomes older and there will be a day in the future when we will all have to retire. If the abilities of the people making such important decisions for the company have declined due to aging, or if these people reach retirement age, they might not be able to perform their job duties. It is natural to be concerned about this. To deal with this issue, it is important for us to seek out younger members of the company who have the potential to take on these new tasks and to let them go through the necessary experiences. This ability can be cultivated and obtained only through serious decision-making processes at the relevant positions. It is not something we can make them understand by taking them by the hand and teaching them step-by-step."

Genyo Takeda (Hardware):
"The world of technology has been quickly evolving – every one of us has to be as flexible as possible, even to the extent that we have to rethink what we have firmly said before. This is a global movement. We cannot afford to say things such as, “We are Japanese and we only need to think about Japan.” We are having these talks inside the company and nurturing individuals who will be able to make decisions as to what technology we should pursue. I say “individuals” because I believe that the right decisions (to judge the future of technology) cannot be made by a majority vote."

Miyamoto:
"I am now trying to establish internal systems that can primarily operate by the decisions made by people who are 20 years younger than I am, not just 10 years younger. We are preparing for a bright future."



curl-6 said:

tl;dr, Nintendo is too conservative.

It's run by old farts who are out of touch with the modern market.

Delicate as always, curl



DélioPT said:
Even though N64 and GC had lower and lower install bases, there still was enough money being made, but now that's not the case: a LOT less games on Wii U (probably less games on 3DS, aswell), increased budgets, smaller market (mobile market influence) = less money to be made automatically.

Something really has to change within. And i think the change is already happening.
If you read the Q&A from their last investor meeting you'll see that change is already happening. Splatoon is a good exemple of that. Years ago, a project like that might never had been green lighted.

But this is what i am referring to (taken from question 7):

Iwata:
"When it comes to judging the future of technology and whether certain ideas have the potential to become great entertainment, a few people who have been with Nintendo for many years have been taking on these roles at the company. It is inevitable, however, that everyone becomes older and there will be a day in the future when we will all have to retire. If the abilities of the people making such important decisions for the company have declined due to aging, or if these people reach retirement age, they might not be able to perform their job duties. It is natural to be concerned about this. To deal with this issue, it is important for us to seek out younger members of the company who have the potential to take on these new tasks and to let them go through the necessary experiences. This ability can be cultivated and obtained only through serious decision-making processes at the relevant positions. It is not something we can make them understand by taking them by the hand and teaching them step-by-step."

Genyo Takeda (Hardware):
"The world of technology has been quickly evolving – every one of us has to be as flexible as possible, even to the extent that we have to rethink what we have firmly said before. This is a global movement. We cannot afford to say things such as, “We are Japanese and we only need to think about Japan.” We are having these talks inside the company and nurturing individuals who will be able to make decisions as to what technology we should pursue. I say “individuals” because I believe that the right decisions (to judge the future of technology) cannot be made by a majority vote."

Miyamoto:
"I am now trying to establish internal systems that can primarily operate by the decisions made by people who are 20 years younger than I am, not just 10 years younger. We are preparing for a bright future."

Right, the culture can change, but even that takes time, and the fruits of those changes take longer still to grow (2 year dev cycle, 5 year console dev cycle)



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Mr Khan said:
DélioPT said:
Even though N64 and GC had lower and lower install bases, there still was enough money being made, but now that's not the case: a LOT less games on Wii U (probably less games on 3DS, aswell), increased budgets, smaller market (mobile market influence) = less money to be made automatically.

Something really has to change within. And i think the change is already happening.
If you read the Q&A from their last investor meeting you'll see that change is already happening. Splatoon is a good exemple of that. Years ago, a project like that might never had been green lighted.

But this is what i am referring to (taken from question 7):

Iwata:
"When it comes to judging the future of technology and whether certain ideas have the potential to become great entertainment, a few people who have been with Nintendo for many years have been taking on these roles at the company. It is inevitable, however, that everyone becomes older and there will be a day in the future when we will all have to retire. If the abilities of the people making such important decisions for the company have declined due to aging, or if these people reach retirement age, they might not be able to perform their job duties. It is natural to be concerned about this. To deal with this issue, it is important for us to seek out younger members of the company who have the potential to take on these new tasks and to let them go through the necessary experiences. This ability can be cultivated and obtained only through serious decision-making processes at the relevant positions. It is not something we can make them understand by taking them by the hand and teaching them step-by-step."

Genyo Takeda (Hardware):
"The world of technology has been quickly evolving – every one of us has to be as flexible as possible, even to the extent that we have to rethink what we have firmly said before. This is a global movement. We cannot afford to say things such as, “We are Japanese and we only need to think about Japan.” We are having these talks inside the company and nurturing individuals who will be able to make decisions as to what technology we should pursue. I say “individuals” because I believe that the right decisions (to judge the future of technology) cannot be made by a majority vote."

Miyamoto:
"I am now trying to establish internal systems that can primarily operate by the decisions made by people who are 20 years younger than I am, not just 10 years younger. We are preparing for a bright future."

Right, the culture can change, but even that takes time, and the fruits of those changes take longer still to grow (2 year dev cycle, 5 year console dev cycle)

Splatoon is already a fruit of that change - and by then hand of Miyamoto.

In terms of HW i have no idea of what they are thinking and if change really has reached that department.
There were some comments regarding HW and how they were even looking into the mobile market to learn from it, in the Q&A aswell, but that's the type of thing that, as you said, comes in cycles, so it's hard to evaluate change in that field.

But look at it this way, account system is something that Nintendo is already thinking of implementing; clouds will be used for the QoL. So, it's not that they aren't learning, the question is have they learnt what?

Next year the new handheld will most likely be revealed so we'll see then, what they actually learnt.



I don't think the culture will change anytime soon.

If I'm a 30 year veteran at Nintendo who's paid his dues and worked for a long time to get a cushy, high paying position on the board of directors with a large say in things, I'm sure as hell not just stepping aside so some young little snot can take my spot. Why should I?

I don't see the incentive there for that to be done. It doesn't seem like Iwata really has mass authority to do things in the way Yamauchi did either.

For better or (probably) worse Nintendo is stuck with this structure for the next decade or so. Japanese companies do not change their culture that quickly. It's best I think just to enjoy their games, because they're not going to make radical changes in how they operate. Even the younger people on the board likely only get there by playing it safe (as the article states) and being loyal to older higher ups in the company.

If anything I think the company has become more bogged down in internal politics and Japanese tradition under Iwata. Yamauchi didn't give a f**k because he made decisions on a whim and no one dared challenge him. He did things like sign the deal for Donkey Kong Country (a Western game) after hearing a sales pitch for it, there was no debate or lengthy meeting about whether or not to do it, he liked that the guy who pitched had the balls to speak up, and sealed the deal for it right there on the spot. He also chose Silicon Graphics for the N64 basically on his own, again because he liked their presentation (I'm sure giving the next-gen contract to an American company like that did not sit well with a lot of people at Nintendo but no one would dare question Yamauchi). That's not how it works at Nintendo anymore.