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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Did Microsoft just force Nintendo's hand?

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Should they reduce the price of the Wii U?

Yes, it's overdue. 220 61.45%
 
No, it's fine. 97 27.09%
 
Not sure. 41 11.45%
 
Total:358
Cream147 said:
Reducing the price will only deliver a small uptick in sales. Therefore there's no real point in them doing it - not until they can afford to do it and still be profitable anyway.


It would differentiate the Wii from the competition being its hardware is still older than the current gen hardware to the average consumer. Much like the Wii it needs to be sold as an affordable way to gain access to Nintendo games. Nintendo needs to take the affordable route and Microsoft inadvetantly is making them an example while trying to fight Sony for Marketshare. Microsofts battle isnt about profitability right now, but rather marketshare.

Nintendo has to swallow their pride and accept the fact that after twenty years, he who holds the third party holds the power. If they don't they are a secondary console to the majority who own their platform. They know what they have to do if they want to be a primary for the majority.



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S.T.A.G.E. said:
Cream147 said:
Reducing the price will only deliver a small uptick in sales. Therefore there's no real point in them doing it - not until they can afford to do it and still be profitable anyway.


It would differentiate the Wii from the competition being its hardware is still older than the current gen hardware to the average consumer. Much like the Wii it needs to be sold as an affordable way to gain access to Nintendo games. Nintendo needs to take the affordable route and Microsoft inadvetantly is making them an example while trying to fight Sony for Marketshare. Microsofts battle isnt about profitability right now, but rather marketshare.

Nintendo has to swallow their pride and accept the fact that after twenty years, he who holds the third party holds the power. If they don't they are a secondary console to the majority who own their platform. They know what they have to do if they want to be a primary for the majority.


But that's the point. The ship has long since sailed on the Wii U - it will never achieve mass market popularity now. They might as well just allow it to be moderately profitable with cult popularity like it is now and try to capture the mass market next time around, rather than do a price cut such that they're selling below their costs and making a loss again.



Cream147 said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:


It would differentiate the Wii from the competition being its hardware is still older than the current gen hardware to the average consumer. Much like the Wii it needs to be sold as an affordable way to gain access to Nintendo games. Nintendo needs to take the affordable route and Microsoft inadvetantly is making them an example while trying to fight Sony for Marketshare. Microsofts battle isnt about profitability right now, but rather marketshare.

Nintendo has to swallow their pride and accept the fact that after twenty years, he who holds the third party holds the power. If they don't they are a secondary console to the majority who own their platform. They know what they have to do if they want to be a primary for the majority.


But that's the point. The ship has long since sailed on the Wii U - it will never achieve mass market popularity now. They might as well just allow it to be moderately profitable with cult popularity like it is now and try to capture the mass market next time around, rather than do a price cut such that they're selling below their costs and making a loss again.

If Nintendo didnt make the controller the way they did the Wii U would've been profitable from day one. They can still afford to drop the console down to $250 and still profit. Even the PS3 which launched at $600 eventually became profitable four years after launch and tweaking of the hardware specs.



S.T.A.G.E. said:
bowserthedog said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
Soundwave said:

Nintendo doesn't give poops about what MS or Sony are doing at this point.

They're not in that ball game anymore and haven't been for a while. 

They're having enough headaches trying to deal with the impact of smartphones/tablets eating away their strongholds of the kids market/casual/beginner players.


Yes they are in the same ball game, they just screwed up by losing the third parties after trying to court them in 2012.

(See the Nintendo conference E32012)

Nintendo gave the illusion they were trying to court them. Mostly they need some content year one while Nintendo played catch up on HD game development.

When Nintendo matches the features of Playstation and Xbox and has the same power at the same time then you could say they truely courted the cross platfrom games.


No. Nintendo expressed regret after the Wii era ended at the lack of highly praised and selling third party content on their platform. When this was revealed Activision was finally open to giving Nintendo a current gen port of Black Ops 2 because the console was finally on par, but one thing was missing which was community (sales) of the franchise on their platform. Reggie went on the news telling people that the Wii U was the best platform to play COD on, because they wanted the Wii U to be seen as no different than the Playstation in offerings but offering a twist with the way you play it. If marketers do not see a large enough installed base that could effectively pay for DLC they remove DLC from that platform. Generally its around 20% share of the installed base of the platforms base. 

Watch their E3 conference in 2012. Nintendo courted numerous third party devs after going on a media crusade to prove they could stand with them. Something happened to cause them to have a falling out with EA and other publishers. What caused it? I don't know...but I bet a great portion of it has everything to do with the fact that Nintendo was too little too late and wanted third party to downport their next gen titles for them, which they had already said since 2011 was not going to happen unless console publishers met specifications. Microsoft and Sony were the only ones to listen.

Dude.  I'm well aware that all of these things happened.  But they didn't actually agressively pursue 3rd parties. Maybe verbally they did. But not by giving them what they want. It would take several years and a very concious effort from Nintendo to get back on par with Sony and Microsoft in terms of cross platform games. They would need to match the power or go a bit higher from the start and for the entire duration of a generation. They would have to match all of the features of the other systems in terms of online play and the system would have to be very simple to make games for. Similar to a pc in architecture. Merely speaking words and saying that would like to see ports simply isn't courting them at all. They still build systems for their own games and then hope the ports will come. But they most certainly aren't doing what it would take. It would have to be so easy to port games to it that the port cost would be significantly below would they would make off a game. There would have to be a significant profit motive. There would be no "on switch" to immedietely get high sales on port games on Nintendo but what they need to do is make is very cheap to move games to the platform. Not come out with a system which has a much slower CPU than last gen systems.

One must also keep in mind when monitering what Nintendo says versus what Nintendo does is that you guys jump all over them if they dare suggest that cross platform games are insignificant. Honestly, what would be the reaction if Iwata came out on stage and said with our new console we don't care about cross platform 3rd party games because consumers buy our consoles for our superior games?  You guys would call them arrogant and ect ect ect. They can't do that.



S.T.A.G.E. said:

If Nintendo didnt make the controller the way they did the Wii U would've been profitable from day one. They can still afford to drop the console down to $250 and still profit. Even the PS3 which launched at $600 eventually became profitable four years after launch and tweaking of the hardware specs.

I don't want to mess with your debate, but that sentence is not correct.

After those 3-4 years the PS3 was no longer sold at a loss, but that doesn't mean that the console has been profitable for Sony.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

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JEMC said:

I don't want to mess with your debate, but that sentence is not correct.

After those 3-4 years the PS3 was no longer sold at a loss, but that doesn't mean that the console has been profitable for Sony.

The PS3 turned to profit in 2010. Until then the PS2 was offsetting their losses. The slimline also launched lacking backwards compatibility among other things.

http://kotaku.com/5575994/after-nearly-four-years-the-ps3-finally-turns-a-profit



I think the Wii U price cut will come with the rumored Wii U Gamepad revision



S.T.A.G.E. said:
JEMC said:

I don't want to mess with your debate, but that sentence is not correct.

After those 3-4 years the PS3 was no longer sold at a loss, but that doesn't mean that the console has been profitable for Sony.

The PS3 turned to profit in 2010. Until then the PS2 was offsetting their losses. The slimline also launched lacking backwards compatibility among other things.

http://kotaku.com/5575994/after-nearly-four-years-the-ps3-finally-turns-a-profit

From that link:

"This year is the first time that we are able to cover the cost of the PlayStation 3", Sony Computer Entertainment Worldwide Studios boss Shuhei Yoshida told IGN. "We aren't making huge money from hardware, but we aren't bleeding like we used to."

In 2010 the console began to be sold for a profit, not a loss. But that doesn't mean that they can get back the millions they lost during the first 4 years and make the console profitable, and by profitable I mean getting back all the money they have spend on it, from R&D to the hardware itself.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

JEMC said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
JEMC said:

I don't want to mess with your debate, but that sentence is not correct.

After those 3-4 years the PS3 was no longer sold at a loss, but that doesn't mean that the console has been profitable for Sony.

The PS3 turned to profit in 2010. Until then the PS2 was offsetting their losses. The slimline also launched lacking backwards compatibility among other things.

http://kotaku.com/5575994/after-nearly-four-years-the-ps3-finally-turns-a-profit

From that link:

"This year is the first time that we are able to cover the cost of the PlayStation 3", Sony Computer Entertainment Worldwide Studios boss Shuhei Yoshida told IGN. "We aren't making huge money from hardware, but we aren't bleeding like we used to."

In 2010 the console began to be sold for a profit, not a loss. But that doesn't mean that they can get back the millions they lost during the first 4 years and make the console profitable, and by profitable I mean getting back all the money they have spend on it, from R&D to the hardware itself.


So? It doesn't matter. What do you want from the company? Wii money? Nintendo had been making hand over fist out of the gate. You couldn't expect massive amounts of money so soon after launching at $600, could you? A profit is a profit. No one specified how large. Money was starting to come back into the company at a profit regardless. The PS2 sales were being used to offset the loss of the PS3. Sony takes great risks with their consoles hence why they initiated the 10 year profitability plan. Microsoft later adopted this plan so they could follow behind them with the Xbox 360 until Sony pulls the plug on the PS3. The PS3 was no longer a problem until the Vita launched. Watch. The day Sony pulls the plug on the PS3 is the day Microsoft pulls the plug on the 360. The VIta was (and still is) the big gaping hole in Sony's losses from 2011 forward. The PS3 sales have been offsetting the losses the Vita has caused thus far.

Sony took the risks  and your family, my family and many other peoples families were able to to buy CD's, DVD's and Blu Rays at at fair market price from the 90's until now. Until Sony launched their consoles at a loss people could barely get their hands on those formats. 



S.T.A.G.E. said:
JEMC said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
JEMC said:

I don't want to mess with your debate, but that sentence is not correct.

After those 3-4 years the PS3 was no longer sold at a loss, but that doesn't mean that the console has been profitable for Sony.

The PS3 turned to profit in 2010. Until then the PS2 was offsetting their losses. The slimline also launched lacking backwards compatibility among other things.

http://kotaku.com/5575994/after-nearly-four-years-the-ps3-finally-turns-a-profit

From that link:

"This year is the first time that we are able to cover the cost of the PlayStation 3", Sony Computer Entertainment Worldwide Studios boss Shuhei Yoshida told IGN. "We aren't making huge money from hardware, but we aren't bleeding like we used to."

In 2010 the console began to be sold for a profit, not a loss. But that doesn't mean that they can get back the millions they lost during the first 4 years and make the console profitable, and by profitable I mean getting back all the money they have spend on it, from R&D to the hardware itself.


So? It doesn't matter. What do you want from the company? Wii money? Nintendo had been making hand over fist out of the gate. You couldn't expect massive amounts of money so soon? Money was starting to come back into the company at a profit regardless. The PS2 sales were being used to offset the loss of the PS3. Sony takes great risks with their consoles hence why they initiated the 10 year profitability plan. Microsoft later adopted this plan so they could follow behind them with the Xbox 360 until Sony pulls the plug on the PS3. The PS3 was no longer a problem until the Vita launched. Watch. The day Sony pulls the plug on the PS3 is the day Microsoft pulls the plug on the 360. The VIta was (and still is) the big gaping hole in Sony's losses from 2011 forward. The PS3 sales have been offsetting the losses the Vita has caused thus far.

Sony took the risks and because of it since the 90's your family, my family and many other peoples families were able to to buy CD's, DVD's and Blu Rays at at fair market price from the 90's until now. Until Sony launched their consoles at a loss people could barely get their hands on those formats.

Sony's strategy is not the question here.

You said that Nintendo should drop the price of the Wii U to $250 and still make a profit (something that we don't know if it's true, btw), like Sony did with the PS3 after 4 years. But what we have to remember is that Sony is (or was) willing to take heavy losses on its hardware in their first years because they could get the money back from the other sides of the company, but that's not the case with Nintendo. Nintendo needs to profit from both software and hardware to still be profitable.

Look what happened in the last 2 years: even with the 3DS being profitable and its first party games, Nintendo has lost money because of the Wii U. And that's because they followed Sony/MSoft's strategy and sold their console at a loss. Nintendo can't do that, they need every machine to be sold for a profit and get back all the money they invested on it to use that money again in the next console.

That's the point here, Nintendo needs to focus on getting back all the money they can first, and once that goal is on track, try to get back some of the lost marketshare.



Please excuse my bad English.

Currently gaming on a PC with an i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.