famousringo said: Mars said: Hes 3rd party, he knows better then to waste top games on the wii. Pay attention.  PS3 is the platform that THQ is bringing the fewest titles to, and it's no coincidence that it is also the platform they've seen the worst returns on.

Ahh.  You don't really think he knows what he's talking about when his arguement includes talking about soccor moms do you?

Stever89 said: disolitude said: First with licencing fees, then with expensive cartrige format...Nintendo has a history of crippling 3rd party devs when it comes to making games for their system and wii is no different. Look at multi million sellers for the wii and take away the nintendo ones...5 games left, 1 of which is any good...RE4(port). In comparison...there is 26 million 3rd party sellers for xbox 360 and wii has 3 million more consoles on the market. Microsoft and Sony pay you to make a game for them(exclusives)...they make ads for your games...they give you ways to promote games online with videos and demos. Nintendo doesn't bother with any of that...they just look at how to promote the next mario game and resell you an old game with new controlls. Why would THQ or anyone else bother? This is the same old argument that comes up everytime. There's not any good games on the Wii from 3rd parties that deserve a million sellers. RE:UC, MySims, Lego Star Wars are all just a few weeks away, so that's 3 more games to add to the 3rd party million seller list, only 1 of which is not a traditional game. I won't comment on your exclusion of GH3 from the "good" game list. 360 also has been out longer, which gives it a chance to sell older titles longer, which gives those games a better chance at hitting a million. Many games on the Wii will start hitting a million by the end of the year, simply because they've been out longer. Any game that can sell 15-20k a week, over a year, will reach a million. So any game at 500k already only needs to average 10k a week to get to a million by the end of the year. And once the Everyone's Nintendo Channel (or whatever it will be called) is released in America, that'll be a way to advertise games with demos and such. Even DS games. And mars, the kickass game MP3 will sell more than MP2 in a few weeks. Over the next 2 years I expect it to pass 2 million.

I understand where your point of view is coming as I too feel that no good 3rd party games are coming out sometime. (I am a wii owner as well)

With 21 million consoles, ofcourse wii will sell games over time. most of those games now are 29 bucks anyways. I am thinking the big first week numbers...big first quarter sales. Wii can't get that from 3rd party games that are non party games or non Mario/Zeldas. Furthermore I pulled some information for you, xbox 360 vs Wii sales on similar games.

Madden NFL 08 2.15m vs 0.57m
FIFA 08  1.05m vs 0.47m
Need for Speed: ProStreet  1.13m vs 0.42m
Call of Duty 3 1.97m vs 0.36m

As far as no good 3rd party games for wii comment, that supposedly don't deserve million seller status -

Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros Treasure - 0.29m
Medal of Honor: Heroes 2  - 0.17m
No More Heroes - 0.17m

These games had good if not great reviews and with a demo on xbox live and some marketing push these games would have sold over 500K by now on the 360.

I am not saying nintendo wont change in the future and provide better support for 3rd parties, but they still have a long way to go before Capcom starts thinking of porting RE5 to wii.

Mars said: disolitude said: First with licencing fees, then with expensive cartrige format...Nintendo has a history of crippling 3rd party devs when it comes to making games for their system and wii is no different. Look at multi million sellers for the wii and take away the nintendo ones...5 games left, 1 of which is any good...RE4(port). In comparison...there is 26 million 3rd party sellers for xbox 360 and wii has 3 million more consoles on the market. Microsoft and Sony pay you to make a game for them(exclusives)...they make ads for your games...they give you ways to promote games online with videos and demos. Nintendo doesn't bother with any of that...they just look at how to promote the next mario game and resell you an old game with new controlls. Why would THQ or anyone else bother?  QFT best post of the thread.

I had to quote the blues brothers. Every console manufacturer has licencing fees. At one time cartriges were the only real option for games, and still with N64, they were a lot better option for the gamer (besides the cost of final product, while the situation is similar with PS3, except without the advantages of cartrige). The issues Nintendo had for 3rd parties, were fixed before GC launch and "Seal of Approval" has replaced "Seal of Quality", which means Nintendo controls games on their platform less than before. Wii has more million sellers than 360 had at similar timeframe from launch, although not as many 3rd party, but in the other hand, 360 had better quality 3rd party titles at the same timeframe. And besides, Wii is continously getting more of them. M$ and Sony promotes 3rd parties only because they have to. They don't want each other to get "game X" or Nintendo getting the game (which is inevidable). If they were winning and getting the 3rd party support in any case (like Wii is having), they wouldn't promote third parties games. Nintendo does pay 3rd parties for making a game for them, take Mario Party for example. THQ, as everyone else, bothers if they want to make money this generation. Higher dev costs and lower installbase vs. lower dev costs and higher installbase is no brainer for where the profit originates. Before saying anything about CoD4 sales on Wii, we would need to see the game on Wii. You could say that CoD4 sells a lot better on PS360 and it would be a fact, since it has sold none on Wii. If we say about some game it sold "only" more than a million, there's 2 options, either the games industry is really expanded and healthy, or dev costs are so high and devs start bankcrupting. And even more, when the game is clearly going to top its predecessor.

disolitude said: ... I understand where your point of view is coming as I too feel that no good 3rd party games are coming out sometime. (I am a wii owner as well) With 21 million consoles, ofcourse wii will sell games over time. most of those games now are 29 bucks anyways. I am thinking the big first week numbers...big first quarter sales. Wii can't get that from 3rd party games that are non party games or non Mario/Zeldas. Furthermore I pulled some information for you, xbox 360 vs Wii sales on similar games. Madden NFL 08 2.15m vs 0.57m FIFA 08 1.05m vs 0.47m Need for Speed: ProStreet 1.13m vs 0.42m Call of Duty 3 1.97m vs 0.36m As far as no good 3rd party games for wii comment, that supposedly don't deserve million seller status - Zack & Wiki: Quest for Barbaros Treasure - 0.29m Medal of Honor: Heroes 2 - 0.17m No More Heroes - 0.17m These games had good if not great reviews and with a demo on xbox live and some marketing push these games would have sold over 500K by now on the 360. I am not saying nintendo wont change in the future and provide better support for 3rd parties, but they still have a long way to go before Capcom starts thinking of porting RE5 to wii.

MOH definitely should have sold better... but it also didn't get any advertising, which I know is partly Nintendo's fault. It was a PSP port type game though... /shrugs.

The other two games aren't really meant to sell a lot, and definitely longer leg type of games. NMH hasn't been released in Europe, which seems to have a good amount of preorders, so we'll know next week with that one, since I believe it's released this week in Others.

I'll give you Madden 08 (even though it had a few glitches, and definitely wasn't as polished as the 360 version). Same with FIFA and Need for Speed, though I don't think Need for Speed was any good, and didn't get good scores, so I'm not sure if it deserved to sell a million.

Call of Duty 3, I won't give you, since that was released back at Wii's launch.

And yes, Nintendo does have a long way to go. But I think they need to increase production a lot so that they can actually advertise a system and games that will in stock. But 3rd parties need to pick it up. Enough with the PS2/PSP ports. Enough with the 3rd string developers making games. Enough enough enough. Make a quality game, like many of Nintendo's games, like RE4, RE:UC, Lego Star Wars, and it will sell. 

bdbdbd said: Mars said: disolitude said: First with licencing fees, then with expensive cartrige format...Nintendo has a history of crippling 3rd party devs when it comes to making games for their system and wii is no different. Look at multi million sellers for the wii and take away the nintendo ones...5 games left, 1 of which is any good...RE4(port). In comparison...there is 26 million 3rd party sellers for xbox 360 and wii has 3 million more consoles on the market. Microsoft and Sony pay you to make a game for them(exclusives)...they make ads for your games...they give you ways to promote games online with videos and demos. Nintendo doesn't bother with any of that...they just look at how to promote the next mario game and resell you an old game with new controlls. Why would THQ or anyone else bother?  QFT best post of the thread.    I had to quote the blues brothers. Every console manufacturer has licencing fees. At one time cartriges were the only real option for games, and still with N64, they were a lot better option for the gamer (besides the cost of final product, while the situation is similar with PS3, except without the advantages of cartrige). The issues Nintendo had for 3rd parties, were fixed before GC launch and "Seal of Approval" has replaced "Seal of Quality", which means Nintendo controls games on their platform less than before. Wii has more million sellers than 360 had at similar timeframe from launch, although not as many 3rd party, but in the other hand, 360 had better quality 3rd party titles at the same timeframe. And besides, Wii is continously getting more of them. M$ and Sony promotes 3rd parties only because they have to. They don't want each other to get "game X" or Nintendo getting the game (which is inevidable). If they were winning and getting the 3rd party support in any case (like Wii is having), they wouldn't promote third parties games. Nintendo does pay 3rd parties for making a game for them, take Mario Party for example. THQ, as everyone else, bothers if they want to make money this generation. Higher dev costs and lower installbase vs. lower dev costs and higher installbase is no brainer for where the profit originates. Before saying anything about CoD4 sales on Wii, we would need to see the game on Wii. You could say that CoD4 sells a lot better on PS360 and it would be a fact, since it has sold none on Wii. If we say about some game it sold "only" more than a million, there's 2 options, either the games industry is really expanded and healthy, or dev costs are so high and devs start bankcrupting. And even more, when the game is clearly going to top its predecessor.

LOL. Funny guy...

As far as licencing fees and such...I stated that nintendo had these issues in the past. I wanted to remind everyone why devs flocked to sega in genesis days...licencing fees and contracts nintendo forced them to sign before making games were rediculous.

And lets not forget why they flocked to PS1, cartrige based console... History tends to repeat itself.

So today they are found in a similar pickle. I work for an advertising company. I meet a lot of people when I go to events etc...and everyone and their mom has a wii. Its just a cool thing to have...these people will see a game like DMC or call of duty and will chose wii play over it any day. Kids and old nintendo fans will go for mario games.

Who will buy the COD's, the DMC's, the MGS's if they were coming to the wii? You, Me...lots of people on this site sure. But most "casual" gamers on ps3 and xbox will eat it up while casual gamers on the wii are my mom and dad.

disolitude said: ... ... So today they are found in a similar pickle. I work for an advertising company. I meet a lot of people when I go to events etc...and everyone and their mom has a wii. Its just a cool thing to have...these people will see a game like DMC or call of duty and will chose wii play over it any day. Kids and old nintendo fans will go for mario games. Who will buy the COD's, the DMC's, the MGS's if they were coming to the wii? You, Me...lots of people on this site sure. But most "casual" gamers on ps3 and xbox will eat it up while casual gamers on the wii are my mom and dad.

We all know casuals don't buy the 360/PS3. Don't tarnish the hardcore stereotype! Jeez.

The problem still remains that even most "good" games on the Wii are either ports of the PS2 games, or they just plain suck. Any game that is good that isn't a port usually fall into the smaller market (or niche), and thus aren't meant to sell well anyway.

I would feel that a COD4 quality level FPS, with MOH:H2 controls, with Halo 3 advertising, would probably sell at least a million. I know that doesn't sound very good compared to the 360/PS3 sales, but those consoles dominate in that field, because those consoles cater directly to them. But in the long run it's going to hurt them, because casuals do make up the majority of the market, and the casuals (new and old a like) are going to the Wii. 

BengaBenga said: No, it wouldn't have to compete with the current consoles, because by the time Nintendo comes with a new console, so will the others. Sony and Microsoft won't make the same mistake again, and will drastically decrease the power increase from this gen to the next as compared to the one we saw from PS2 -> PS3. Nintendo's next console, WiiHD, will be far more powerfull (imo) than 360: Nintendo has the money, the brandname (Wii) and has always had a technichally competative console.

Since the wii is just a little more powerful than an Xbox then why do you think their console would be a lot more powerful than 360/Ps3 since they are a little ahead of their time. The Big N next system would have to come up again with something totally new. By the end (whenever that may be) of this generation I have no doubt you will see a huge leap in graphics differences between PS3/360 vs Wii. In another words Wii will age faster than PS3/360.

As you said I believe Microsoft and Sony have learn (we hope) their lession and will probably run with 360/ Ps3 for a much longer time than last generation consoles. Of course this depends of how many leaps we see coming to the PC.

One of the big advantage of the Wii right now is it cheaper to make games for. One of the disadvantage of the Wii is it cheaper to make games (shovelware) for.

Garcian Smith said: For reference, here are the games that THQ has put out for the Wii, including Gamerankings scores. Avatar: The Burning Earth (58.2%) Bratz the Movie (60.5%) Cars (68.5%) MX v. ATV Untamed (69.8%) Nicktoons: Attack of the Toy Bots (55.8%) Spongebob: Creature from the Krusty Krab (58.4%) WWE Smackdown v. RAW 2008 (63.1%) Most of these were Playstation 2 ports. So, yep. Just another company whining that "waaaaaaaah my shitty shovelware won't sell on the Wii!!"

 Wow.  That shuts THQ right up.  Case closed.  Thank you.

Stever89 said: disolitude said: ... ...   We all know casuals don't buy the 360/PS3. Don't tarnish the hardcore stereotype! Jeez. The problem still remains that even most "good" games on the Wii are either ports of the PS2 games, or they just plain suck. Any game that is good that isn't a port usually fall into the smaller market (or niche), and thus aren't meant to sell well anyway. I would feel that a COD4 quality level FPS, with MOH:H2 controls, with Halo 3 advertising, would probably sell at least a million. I know that doesn't sound very good compared to the 360/PS3 sales, but those consoles dominate in that field, because those consoles cater directly to them. But in the long run it's going to hurt them, because casuals do make up the majority of the market, and the casuals (new and old a like) are going to the Wii.

If this type of game came out for the wii every once in a while(3rd party or not), they would put the 360 and ps3 out of business. :)

Stever89 said: disolitude said: ... I would feel that a COD4 quality level FPS, with MOH:H2 controls, with Halo 3 advertising, would probably sell at least a million.

The thing is 360 would be closer (since you mention Halo3) to pull this off now than the Wii.  Buying IR tracking control would be a lot cheaper than buying a whole new Big N console. All Microsoft really needs is a IR camera split controler.

I rather use a normal controller myself instead of trying to aim at the thin bar on top of my TV.