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Forums - Gaming - Sony's Missteps In North America

Samus Aran said:


It's not going to have the same legs with those mediocre reviews and buggy game glitches. And it's probably more expensive than Bayonetta 2 yes. I never said Bayonetta 2 would sell more or profit more. It's a Japanese niche game for crying out loud. LBP is supposed to be one of Sony's biggest franchises. 

Bayonetta 2's attach ratio is a lot higher. And that's pretty impressive for a Japanese niche game on a Nintendo console (where third party and "mature" games usually don't sell well at all). 

"I predict this will be the last LBP game we see."

LBP is mostly sold to families and casual-core gamers who don't care much about reviews. It's still LBP.

Oh so now we've arrived at the attach ratio spin. Great. Attach ratio doesn't sell games, sales do.



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At this point I don't even think Sony is concerned about being tied with MS in the US/UK. Globally the gen is set in stone, and they will command a huge lead throughout the gen. More consoles are sold outside of the US in total than are sold in it, so they have already succeeded far more than they ever thought they could.

I also have a new theory that I am closer and closer to feeling is 100% accurate :

It's EXPENSIVE to launch a flagship console. I mean it's crazy huge investment to do one. The profits on console gens always come after the initial costs are covered for R&D, initial marketing, legal, yadda yadda, and as time goes on, costs lower considerably, until by the later years money is piling in from the large install base + subscriptions/accessories/etc. So it's in Sony's best interest for gen8 to last as long as they can make it.

Now what happens if Sony gets too focused on crushing Microsoft everywhere? Say they drop the PS4 to $299 with a game. PS4 would annihilate the X1 in the US and UK, and probably drive the X1 completely out of stores in the rest of the world. That would actually be a huge gamble based on Microsoft's response to completely losing gen8. Microsoft might exit the gaming market, which would be a huge victory for Sony, but a couple of other possibilities might threaten Sony more. Gaming PCs are more common outside of the US than in it, so one Microsoft response could be to move Xbox to PC. All the big IPs, maybe a partnership or buyout of Valve, if Microsoft wanted to, they could even sell Xbox-branded PCs, and it wouldn't cost much to do.

But the even more likely scenario is that Microsoft, who is never too hesitant to waste money, would fast-track a gen9 console, and sell it at a huge loss in order to try to get back in the game. With x86 arch, they could even make it backwards compatible with X1 games. If Microsoft was successful in forcing a quick end to Gen8 just to see the world burn, then Sony would have a huge problem on their hands.

The PS4 is pretty much aimed directly at 100M consoles or more by staying the course. Price cuts will come, but they're not out to be a loss leader or try to win purely for the sake of winning. If they do things right, they can make this the most profitable console gen of all time for themselves. PS2 gen wasn't that long, and they didn't have online fees. PS4 should get close to PS2 install base numbers while having a higher profitability along the way.

So that's how I see it. I think Sony actually does better by splitting the US/UK with Microsoft and owning the rest of the world than trying to bully their way into total global domination. If Microsoft can see a ~50m generation for the X1 over 5-7 years and easy profits, I think they stay the course. Sony will have 100-120m total, and everyone wins. But if Sony turns the screws and makes it more like a 35-40m generation for the X1, then that may convince Microsoft to hot-launch gen9 early, and that screws everyone. And in a 'screw-everyone' move, Sony has a lot more to lose.



rolltide101x said:
Samus Aran said:


It's not going to have the same legs with those mediocre reviews and buggy game glitches. And it's probably more expensive than Bayonetta 2 yes. I never said Bayonetta 2 would sell more or profit more. It's a Japanese niche game for crying out loud. LBP is supposed to be one of Sony's biggest franchises. 

Bayonetta 2's attach ratio is a lot higher. 

This is a legit arguement but honestly I do not think LBP is a series that uses reviews that much to get sales. But LBP3 is not really buggy anymore atleast from my experiences, I did not buy the game until a after the major patches

Friends of mine had the game crashing mutliple times when they were in the level editor. They lost 5 hours worth of content and were extremely pissed. Don't know if it's all fixed yet. Still, when the first impressions are bad, the damage is done. 



Ninsect said:
Samus Aran said:


It's not going to have the same legs with those mediocre reviews and buggy game glitches. And it's probably more expensive than Bayonetta 2 yes. I never said Bayonetta 2 would sell more or profit more. It's a Japanese niche game for crying out loud. LBP is supposed to be one of Sony's biggest franchises. 

Bayonetta 2's attach ratio is a lot higher. And that's pretty impressive for a Japanese niche game on a Nintendo console (where third party and "mature" games usually don't sell well at all). 

"I predict this will be the last LBP game we see."

LBP is mostly sold to families and casual-core gamers who don't care much about reviews. It's still LBP.

Oh so now we've arrived at the attach ratio spin. Great. Attach ratio doesn't sell games, sales do.

It's not a spin. It's called perspective. You can't possibly expect Wii U games to sell as much as PS3/PS4 games. 

Intelligent Systems claimed Fire Emblem HD would need to sell 700k to be profitable. So I think Bayonetta 2 is doing just fine.



Samus Aran said:
rolltide101x said:
Samus Aran said:


It's not going to have the same legs with those mediocre reviews and buggy game glitches. And it's probably more expensive than Bayonetta 2 yes. I never said Bayonetta 2 would sell more or profit more. It's a Japanese niche game for crying out loud. LBP is supposed to be one of Sony's biggest franchises. 

Bayonetta 2's attach ratio is a lot higher. 

This is a legit arguement but honestly I do not think LBP is a series that uses reviews that much to get sales. But LBP3 is not really buggy anymore atleast from my experiences, I did not buy the game until a after the major patches

Friends of mine had the game crashing mutliple times when they were in the level editor. They lost 5 hours worth of content and were extremely pissed. Don't know if it's all fixed yet. Still, when the first impressions are bad, the damage is done. 

That is possible, I have not messed with the level editor yet, but I still disagree with you on that LBP is not a game that reviews are going to effect sales 'that much". 



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Samus Aran said:
rolltide101x said:
Samus Aran said:


It's not going to have the same legs with those mediocre reviews and buggy game glitches. And it's probably more expensive than Bayonetta 2 yes. I never said Bayonetta 2 would sell more or profit more. It's a Japanese niche game for crying out loud. LBP is supposed to be one of Sony's biggest franchises. 

Bayonetta 2's attach ratio is a lot higher. 

This is a legit arguement but honestly I do not think LBP is a series that uses reviews that much to get sales. But LBP3 is not really buggy anymore atleast from my experiences, I did not buy the game until a after the major patches

Friends of mine had the game crashing mutliple times when they were in the level editor. They lost 5 hours worth of content and were extremely pissed. Don't know if it's all fixed yet. Still, when the first impressions are bad, the damage is done


*Looks at LBP3, DriveClub sales*



The One and Only

VizionEck.com

Samus Aran said:
Ninsect said:
Samus Aran said:


It's not going to have the same legs with those mediocre reviews and buggy game glitches. And it's probably more expensive than Bayonetta 2 yes. I never said Bayonetta 2 would sell more or profit more. It's a Japanese niche game for crying out loud. LBP is supposed to be one of Sony's biggest franchises. 

Bayonetta 2's attach ratio is a lot higher. And that's pretty impressive for a Japanese niche game on a Nintendo console (where third party and "mature" games usually don't sell well at all). 

"I predict this will be the last LBP game we see."

LBP is mostly sold to families and casual-core gamers who don't care much about reviews. It's still LBP.

Oh so now we've arrived at the attach ratio spin. Great. Attach ratio doesn't sell games, sales do.

It's not a spin. It's called perspective. You can't possibly expect Wii U games to sell as much as PS3/PS4 games. 

Intelligent Systems claimed Fire Emblem HD would need to sell 700k to be profitable. So I think Bayonetta 2 is doing just fine.

The problem is that I don't expect them to sell as much. The problem here is that you called LBP3 a flop. Is it now only a relative flop because it's on PS4? 500k in 3 weeks would be amazing for LBP on WiiU, right, and mean it wasn't a flop anymore just because it launched on a console that sells at a snail's pace? 



The One and Only

VizionEck.com

Ninsect said:
Samus Aran said:
Ninsect said:
Samus Aran said:


It's not going to have the same legs with those mediocre reviews and buggy game glitches. And it's probably more expensive than Bayonetta 2 yes. I never said Bayonetta 2 would sell more or profit more. It's a Japanese niche game for crying out loud. LBP is supposed to be one of Sony's biggest franchises. 

Bayonetta 2's attach ratio is a lot higher. And that's pretty impressive for a Japanese niche game on a Nintendo console (where third party and "mature" games usually don't sell well at all). 

"I predict this will be the last LBP game we see."

LBP is mostly sold to families and casual-core gamers who don't care much about reviews. It's still LBP.

Oh so now we've arrived at the attach ratio spin. Great. Attach ratio doesn't sell games, sales do.

It's not a spin. It's called perspective. You can't possibly expect Wii U games to sell as much as PS3/PS4 games. 

Intelligent Systems claimed Fire Emblem HD would need to sell 700k to be profitable. So I think Bayonetta 2 is doing just fine.

The problem is that I don't expect them to sell as much. The problem here is that you called LBP3 a flop. Is it now only a relative flop because it's on PS4? 500k in 3 weeks would be amazing for LBP on WiiU, right, and mean it wasn't a flop anymore just because it launched on a console that sells at a snail's pace? 

I consider Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze to  be a flop for the Wii U.



Microsoft is shooting in their proverbial foot.  You know, something that I haven't seen written about is how Microsoft's huge discounts in North America is looked at from abraod.  If I were in Europe (not including the UK), for example, I would be ticked off at the preferential treatment MS gives to the U.S.  My guess is that this will drive an even larger wedge in attitudes for those who live ioutside  NA.  It now seems clear that the X1 is not a global product,  but more of a provincial one.  It seems to me that MS is further isolating their sales base around the world.  China is the wild card, but I think even there the perception is that the PS4 is the more global console system.  Yes, Sony will eventually do a price reduction but at the right time and will do it globally.



Samus Aran said:

I consider Donkey Kong Country: Tropical Freeze to  be a flop for the Wii U.

I would say DK done fairly well, better than I would have expected.