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Forums - Sony - Console Philosophy: Sony's Playstation|Overambition

*I open the floor for someone else to make a console philosophy thread about Nintendo and Microsoft Xbox as well.

Every single PlayStation Console from the PlayStation to the PSTV has been inflected by Sony's philosophy of high priced, high quality electronics. Clearly this philosophy is outdated because we've moved from an era of electronics being considered luxuries where Sony flourished to electronics being necessities where Samsung and LG flourish. Now its about low price, average quality electronics. This is why Sony's TVs fail, and there laptops fail, and their phones fail

And that makes sense for the times. Buying a Widescreen a decade ago was more of an investment because it would have to last longer. Now people buy cheap LCDs so that they can upgrade later when a newer model comes out. This also happens with smartphones(so essentially, consumer cameras, media players, and everything else included in them), this happens with tablets and pc parts, it happens with nearly every consumer electronic device.

In fact, the only place where this doesn't happen is consoles. With consoles, this philosophy works to a degree, and it is clear in PlayStation's 10 year lifespans that the same mentality is here as well.

To design consumer electronics that are meant to last is extremely ambitious in this era because of advancing technology. Before the tech even hits its midlife, it will be outdated, and it is still supposed to perform beyond that. 

This ambition is a double edged sword.

PROs + Where it works:

PS4 - Sony's objectively least ambitious console. Sells at a Loss (Manufactured at Profit, might sell at profit now), Accessible Architecture, low entry price(to predecessor), still ambitious in its compact design and long projected lifespan.

PS2 - Sold at a loss. Non-gaming utility (DVD)s, Emotion Engine, lifespan. Backwards compatibility.

PSP - Sold at loss. 3D graphics . PS2 level gaming in compact form factor. Non-gaming utility (Web browser, VoIP), Remote Play

PS1 - Sold at loss. CD format. Non-gaming utility(MP3)

Implies Quality

Implies Support

Drives innovation

Expands feature set

 

CONS + Where it proves fatal:

PS Vita: Sony's Most ambitious console to date. Sold at a loss. Exotic Architecture. Multi-capacitive touch OLED, touch pad, SixAxis, 2 cameras, WiFi, Bluetooth, 3G, proprietary memory. Projected Lifespan. Backwards Compatible. Remote Play with PS3 and PS4. PS3 level graphics.

PS3: Sony's most ambitious home console to date. Sold at a loss. Exotic and Cutting Edge Architecture. SixAxis, non gaming utility. Backwards compatibility(including PS2). Lifespan. Near lack of GPU. Form factor.

PSX: Non-gaming utility(DVR). Probably sold at a loss.

PSPGO: Probably sold at a loss. Digital only.

PSTV/Vita TV: Probably sold at loss(Manufactured at profit) Bad performance in Japan, expected to perform bad in U.S. Not Portable. Can only play a subset of VITA games. Proprietary Memory.

High Price.

Even higher cost of development.

Selling at a loss.

Delays and shipment issues.

Security Vunerabilities.

 

It becomes abundantly clear that Sony's "ambition" in consumer electronics is outdated, even in consoles which have unusually long life spans, the company faced drastically reduced returns on the 7th home and 8th handheld generations. This philosophy is not only outdated, but toxic as well both because it is outdated and because of its effects on the design paradigm. Providing a lot of unneeded utility for a high price. Meanwhile, the philosophical change in the PS4 is reaping immediate benefits for Sony. 

It is important to recognize that this is not the same thing as providing neccessary utility for a high price, such as an iDevice. 

What this means for Sony is an inevitable and neccessary downscaling in either quality, price, target market, product variety, etc. What this means for PlayStation is a similar philosophy to that of PS4, if future economic and technological climate even allows for physical standalone consoles anymore. I personally believe they wont.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

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So how is that, going to play out with no dedicated physical console?
everything through networks? Our consoles streamed through to our smatphones?
or at smart TV. systems?

if So is that the trends Sony is already stocking up for?
PSNNOW, Playstation VU?

I mean its one thing to say, physical consoles are going away, but the fact thaprice point point of the PSVita and PSVita TV or (PLAYSTATION TV) if you will is already selling @profit. On a hardware Basis.

again generic compute devices can be used just like dedicated devices, that does not mean that you have no other choice but generic compute device, unless the consumer wants that, with the way console sales are still going strong its very doubtful that is going to end anytime soon



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

As far as I know, when the PS4 was launched it was sold at a loss. A small one, but at a loss. And if its consoles had used so high quality components, they wouldn't have had so many problems with them in the past.

Also if Samsung and LG sell more TVs is because they make products with the same quality than them but they are able to sell them cheaper than Sony.



Please excuse my bad English.

Former gaming PC: i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Current gaming PC: R5-7600, 32GB RAM 6000MT/s (CL30) and a RX 9060XT 16GB

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

JEMC said:
As far as I know, when the PS4 was launched it was sold at a loss. A small one, but at a loss. And if its consoles had used so high quality components, they wouldn't have had so many problems with them in the past.

Also if Samsung and LG sell more TVs is because they make products with the same quality than them but they are able to sell them cheaper than Sony.

There lower end stuff is cheaper both in cost and manufacturing price. They wouldn't be able to profitably undercut most of Sony's TVs otherwise. 

Perhaps the definetion of quality has changed as well, surely LG and Samsung have high fidelity models to but cheap LCD are made for a shorter lifespan than older model TVs for sure.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

joeorc said:
So how is that, going to play out with no dedicated physical console?
everything through networks? Our consoles streamed through to our smatphones?
or at smart TV. systems?

if So is that the trends Sony is already stocking up for?
PSNNOW, Playstation VU?

I mean its one thing to say, physical consoles are going away, but the fact thaprice point point of the PSVita and PSVita TV or (PLAYSTATION TV) if you will is already selling @profit. On a hardware Basis.

again generic compute devices can be used just like dedicated devices, that does not mean that you have no other choice but generic compute device, unless the consumer wants that, with the way console sales are still going strong its very doubtful that is going to end anytime soon

*manufactured at a profit. Which is still a waste if it doesn't sell. Dedicated devices are already an anomaly in a tech industry dominated by generic compute devices. Smartphones, Tablets, Laptops, and even TVs nowadays are essentially just different form factors of the same thing. Next gen the very idea consoles are going to be obsolete. Console are gonna need to be upgraded which makes them useless because new models or new components will fracture the base irreperably. 

Literally, Console(Dedicated Devices) will have no advantages any longer: entry price?(multiple iterations makes it more expensive). power?(economies of scale will make it better for maybe a day or 2 but again multiple iterations nullifies that), plug in play(multiple iterations). Aside from exclusives, there won't be any point, once 3rd parties realize that then every console becomes the Wii U and even Nintendo, the "best" game developer is barely keeping Wii U afloat alone. PS wouldn't survive exclusivity, an Xbox is already 3/4s PC anyway. 

PSNOW, Live's Cloud, Digital Distribution are inevitable.

Even if Sony makes there devices affordable, which is already a paradigm shift, it wont matter cause as the PSTV is showing right now, the market won't exist for them any longer.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

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Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
JEMC said:
Also if Samsung and LG sell more TVs is because they make products with the same quality than them but they are able to sell them cheaper than Sony.

There lower end stuff is cheaper both in cost and manufacturing price. They wouldn't be able to profitably undercut most of Sony's TVs otherwise. 

Perhaps the definetion of quality has changed as well, surely LG and Samsung have high fidelity models to but cheap LCD are made for a shorter lifespan than older model TVs for sure.

Well, sure that both LG and Samsung have lower end models than Sony have, but nothing is stoping Sony from doing the same. And if you pick a TV with the same specs from those 3 manufacturers, both the Samsung and the LG one will be cheaper... and most of the time, also better.

That's one of the problems of Sony products, they sell them for a comparable higher cost than their competitors. That's why they sell worse.



Please excuse my bad English.

Former gaming PC: i5-4670k@stock (for now), 16Gb RAM 1600 MHz and a GTX 1070

Current gaming PC: R5-7600, 32GB RAM 6000MT/s (CL30) and a RX 9060XT 16GB

Steam / Live / NNID : jonxiquet    Add me if you want, but I'm a single player gamer.

JEMC said:
Dr.Henry_Killinger said:
JEMC said:
Also if Samsung and LG sell more TVs is because they make products with the same quality than them but they are able to sell them cheaper than Sony.

There lower end stuff is cheaper both in cost and manufacturing price. They wouldn't be able to profitably undercut most of Sony's TVs otherwise. 

Perhaps the definetion of quality has changed as well, surely LG and Samsung have high fidelity models to but cheap LCD are made for a shorter lifespan than older model TVs for sure.

Well, sure that both LG and Samsung have lower end models than Sony have, but nothing is stoping Sony from doing the same. And if you pick a TV with the same specs from those 3 manufacturers, both the Samsung and the LG one will be cheaper... and most of the time, also better.

That's one of the problems of Sony products, they sell them for a comparable higher cost than their competitors. That's why they sell worse.

I'm not even sure Sony has TV's anymore or is that Vaio (however the hell you spell it). And I agree that Sony should've done the same, but that is indicative of Sony's overambition, the same thing that slashed the PS3 and is tanking the Vita, and really the whole electronics arm of the company.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

RolStoppable said:
Good to know that the Wii U failed because it was too ambitious.

I honestly think Sony and Nintendo have extremely similar problems. For one, they are both stuck in outdated mindsets, with which Nintendo allieviated somewhat wth the Wii. However, the Wii U suggests that the problem "fixed" by the Wii was a symptom and not a cause, that cause is the primary reason for the Wii U's failings. The tablet is overambitious though, just like how the 3DS's 3D feature was.

P.S Feel free to do a Console Philosophy for Nintendo or Xbox as well.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

Playstation's theme has been to follow the trends in general electronics: PS1 looked to standardize away from the Nintendo epoch, which was very closed down and centralized, and make a system with standard media and a more mainstream approach to publisher relations. PS2 followed that trend, taking on the next bit of standard media and more power and staying the course. PS3 was launched in the beginning of the HD craze, and Sony was invested across the board in pushing HD in as many formats as possible, which explains the PS3's overreach: they believed their dominance in the gaming market could force people into Sony's HD marketplace. PS4 comes in now that the standard is all about making things convenient for programmers, standardization and portability in silicon, with the rise of platforms like iOS and Android and game publishers' needs to port everything everywhere (unless it has "Nintendo" on the box.)

That's the PlayStation philosophy in a nutshell.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Mr Khan said:
Playstation's theme has been to follow the trends in general electronics: PS1 looked to standardize away from the Nintendo epoch, which was very closed down and centralized, and make a system with standard media and a more mainstream approach to publisher relations. PS2 followed that trend, taking on the next bit of standard media and more power and staying the course. PS3 was launched in the beginning of the HD craze, and Sony was invested across the board in pushing HD in as many formats as possible, which explains the PS3's overreach: they believed their dominance in the gaming market could force people into Sony's HD marketplace. PS4 comes in now that the standard is all about making things convenient for programmers, standardization and portability in silicon, with the rise of platforms like iOS and Android and game publishers' needs to port everything everywhere (unless it has "Nintendo" on the box.)

That's the PlayStation philosophy in a nutshell.

PS3 strayed far away from the trend of general electronics. Yes, it pushed HD but that was definetly not because there was an HD Craze at the time. At 600$ it was the cheapest blue-ray player avaliable when blu-ray movies were first appearing on scene as well.

Not to mention, Console R&D takes place years before release so following is impractical, they'd have to predict whats going to be the trend in 2006 for a console meant to last 10 years. It was influenced more by the Xbox then current trends. Which is ultimately the problem with all consoles. Current actually means future.

It also doesn't explain both exotic and proprietary hardware in all but the last iteration of the product family, which by definition doesn't follow trends.

Furthermore, I'd wager that the PS4 vs PS3 had completely opposite design focuses in them, at least concerning who were the dev heads (Kutaragi vs Cerny), and their atitudes at their respective launches. No way is "You'll want to get a second job to buy one" following current trends, that is over ambition in a nutshell.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank