By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Sony - Whoa!! Kojima: "Blu-ray Disc Not Big Enough for MGS4″

Wii7me on 03 March 2008

big deal PS3 will still make it suck



Around the Network
ion-storm on 03 March 2008
Wii7me said:
big deal PS3 will still make it suck


It's true. Debate over.

Now for MGS4 on 50 GD-ROMS! 



Yes

Torillian on 03 March 2008

lol....welcome to VGchartz....don't let the door hit you on the ass on the way out.

I don't want assprints on my new door.



...

Lone_Canis_Lupus on 03 March 2008
FJ-Warez said:
Lone_Canis_Lupus said:
FJ-Warez said:
 

1.- First, audio is not "game", maybe 2/3 of the disc space is audio...

2.- What does the ingame control has to do with this discusion about the reason of the "50 gbs is not enough" statement???

3.- Theres a lot of values calculated for each frame, please, if you don't know how an engine works, stop make assumptions like this...

4.- Knobody has stated the opposite... and why you keep bringgin off topic things???

5.- In game videos are used to hide load times using very few resources, thats why I don't think they are going to use them, because so far the videos showed have a lot of quality, they look a lot better than just a ingame video...


1. Correction, as you saw in my edit, it's 2/5's of the disc space. Also, the audio can be counted as part of the game if it is used in the game.

2. Quality might suffer in actual gameplay than it does in-game video with no interaction at all. That's my point.

3. Then more values are calculated in the actual gameplay along with the frame value. You guys said yourselves the 360 and PS3 "can't handle 1080p." There might be some point between them where in-game video can be flawless and where more processing just degrades the quality. After all, the CELL does help out the GPU somewhat.

4. Because you brought up the whole "Quality doesn't match thing", I'm debunking this. My point in saying that is, the extra processing while actually playing the game might degrade the quality compared to the in-game videos.

5. There you go. If they're using very few resources to load, then they can be using a majority of those resources for the in-game rendering. If they can cut down the size of the area to only a small area they need for the actual video, not as much RAM will be taken up for graphics processing.

 

I'm not giving that as evidence to it being in-game, just giving you a reasonable doubt about the whole "It has to be prerendered because of the difference" thing. This is in 1080p, a much larger area could be loaded into the RAM when actually playing the game, and a lot more is going on to process while actually playing the game. All I'm saying is that quality might suffer somewhat when actually playing the game.

The "Quality is different" argument I don't think really holds water when considering those factors. Like I said, considering it's 1080p it might be easy to go from really good quality to worse quality. A larger area could be loaded into the RAM when playing the game so loading times are minimal compared to the in-game rendering. Last, a lot of extra values could be processed as well as the graphics and audio while actually playing the game.


This is pointless,... is more like "What do you want to be vs what he said and what we do think about it..."

He never said anything about ingame video, but clearly said how Sony is pushing for 1080 content to make the game unavaliable to fit in one DVD (He is talking about video, not sound).... MGS and any other game of the saga relies and a lot in cut scenes... the game is almost a movie, and he said how is Sony pushing to use 1080 content what makes you think he is going to use the ingame videos??? Clearly you don't want to believe it...

Second, the whole issue about the ingame videos, is this: "They are used to hide load times, they are made using existing data in the ram like models and textures, when you see any ingame video you are watching a lot of game content, thats the purpose, re-use existing data, thats how it works, thats why you can clearly see a big difference between in game videos and prerendered cut scenes..."

If you want to believe or not, thats another issue, but most of the people here agree with the FMV taking a lot of space... so far you haven't give us a "real" reason to believe the opposite...


 I'm not saying what I want it to be. He didn't say "the games are prerendered", he has been stressing that everything in there is in-game. So Sony is "forcing"(he hesitated at saying this) him to do 1080. What does that have to do with whether the videos are prerendered or in-game? You act like what he said in that is more important than anything else he's said. He's said all of it is in-game...is that worthless to you compared to what else he said? 

 You say I'm saying this because it's what I want. But you seem to want the videos to be prerendered. You'r e basing this off the fact the he said Sony was "forcing" him to do 1080. Maybe Sony was just pushing HD content. Doesn't matter if it's prerendered or in-game. Now, let me stress this again SIXTY HOURS of UNCOMPRESSED audio. Do you realize just how large that is? As well as Video and Audio aren't the only data in the game. You create enough content, and it will build-up and become large. Maybe he was including this full quality audio into HD as that is often put in the HD push, surround sound and all.

 All Kojima said was that Sony was pushing HD content, and in NO WAY said that they were pushing for this so it wouldn't fit on DVD. You're saying 1080 can't be rendered in-game? It HAS to be prerendered? Nice logic. You even said right there, there are a TON of cutscenes in MGS, maybe all that data for in-game videos builds up. After all, there must be a lot of polygons for a game to look that realistic...the data would probably build up quite quickly.  Clearly you don't want to believe that small things can build up.

 I know what in-game videos are. And I will say again, in a cutscene, you AREN'T doing anything. There are no values or a ton of extra stuff to process besides polygons, textures, and audio. No enemy AI is being handled. A bunch of stuff is going on during the game that is processed as well as the graphics. The in-game rendering is pre-written and pretty much linear from there while in-game so much different branches of things can happen. Don't tell me maxing out on processing doesn't degrade quality at all. The 1080p fact makes the difference much greater between the amount of processing.

 Yes, an FMV takes up a lot of space. But building up of small things can create a result just as big. Think about all the different content. Just like spending small amounts of money can build up over time...data can to. Think about coupons, going shopping for food. You can end up saving $50 total on stuff you didn't save very much on in the first place. Small amounts can build up to huge amounts. An FMV isn't the only explanation.



PSN: Lone_Canis_Lupus

CrazzyMan on 03 March 2008

So, WHO is NOT happy, that Kojima was able to USE/FILL whole 50GB blu-ray disc??? =)



Every 5 seconds on earth one child dies from hunger...

2009.04.30 - PS3 will OUTSELL x360 atleast by the middle of 2010. Japan+Europe > NA.


Gran Turismo 3 - 1,06 mln. in 3 weeks with around 4 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Gran Turismo 4 - 1,16 mln. with 18 mln. PS2 on the launch.

Final Fantasy X - around 2 mln. with 5 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Final Fantasy X-2 - 2.4 mln. with 12 mln. PS2 on the launch.

 

1.8 mln. PS3 today(2008.01.17) in Japan. Now(2009.04.30) 3.16 mln. PS3 were sold in Japan.
PS3 will reach 4 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 25k.

PS3 may reach 5 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 50k.
PS2 2001 vs PS3 2008 sales numbers =) + New games released in Japan by 2009 that passed 100k so far

Around the Network
Stever89 on 03 March 2008
CrazzyMan said:
So, WHO is NOT happy, that Kojima was able to USE/FILL whole 50GB blu-ray disc??? =)

Actually the question you need to ask is "why would anybody seriously care?" because filling the disk does not make the game fun, and it won't sell the game either. If that were the case we would have stuck with those floppy disks because they could be filled easier.

Also, if they're filling the disk with a whole bunch of uncompressed audio, which is hardly different than compressed audio for many people, then they're actually wasting space which could be used for levels or something.



CrazzyMan on 03 March 2008

because filling the disk does not make the game fun, and it won't sell the game either.
UNLESS it`s a METAL GEAR SOLID game. =)

Also, if they're filling the disk with a whole bunch of uncompressed audio, which is hardly different than compressed audio for many people, then they're actually wasting space which could be used for levels or something.
Just a specualations. But IF there 25GB of audio, i don`t mind. =)
So again, what`s the problem here? Who is UNHAPPY?



Every 5 seconds on earth one child dies from hunger...

2009.04.30 - PS3 will OUTSELL x360 atleast by the middle of 2010. Japan+Europe > NA.


Gran Turismo 3 - 1,06 mln. in 3 weeks with around 4 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Gran Turismo 4 - 1,16 mln. with 18 mln. PS2 on the launch.

Final Fantasy X - around 2 mln. with 5 mln. PS2 on the launch.
Final Fantasy X-2 - 2.4 mln. with 12 mln. PS2 on the launch.

 

1.8 mln. PS3 today(2008.01.17) in Japan. Now(2009.04.30) 3.16 mln. PS3 were sold in Japan.
PS3 will reach 4 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 25k.

PS3 may reach 5 mln. in Japan by the end of 2009 with average weekly sales 50k.
PS2 2001 vs PS3 2008 sales numbers =) + New games released in Japan by 2009 that passed 100k so far

NJ5 on 03 March 2008
CrazzyMan said:
because filling the disk does not make the game fun, and it won't sell the game either.
UNLESS it`s a METAL GEAR SOLID game. =)


I smiled :)

 



My Mario Kart Wii friend code: 2707-1866-0957

Lone_Canis_Lupus on 03 March 2008
MrMarc said:
I haven't bothered to sift through the three pages of comments, however I am going to go ahead and say this:

This is total bullshit.

Once again for those that didn't quite catch that:

This is a load of gobshite.

There's 1 of 2 explanations for this.

1. Kojima is straight up lying through his teeth, probably for a few quid in the pocket from Sony for nice marketing.

2. This game is just that badly and lazily developed, with everything being uncompressed needlessly just so that Kojima can say so.

Either way, it's not a good thing in any circumstance if this game really is taking up 50GB's of space. Most PC games now are really only just beginning to use the extra layer on DVD's to install anywhere between 7-12GB's worth of data. This is totally impractical / unrealistic / pure stupidity. In the end I absolutely guarantee you that MGS4 will not be the most epic game ever in terms of length, it'll still be a ludicriously short game or just average in terms of hours played.
Instant fail. On consoles, you play the game pretty much from the disc. On a PC you INSTALL the game. So if you don't need the disc, why not just compress as much as possible? There is no reason to use huge amounts of data for PCs because the data isn't being uncompressed as the game plays. So greatly compressing a PC game is easy when you just install and play it from your hard drive.

 



PSN: Lone_Canis_Lupus

Stever89 on 03 March 2008
CrazzyMan said:
because filling the disk does not make the game fun, and it won't sell the game either.
UNLESS it`s a METAL GEAR SOLID game. =)

Also, if they're filling the disk with a whole bunch of uncompressed audio, which is hardly different than compressed audio for many people, then they're actually wasting space which could be used for levels or something.
Just a specualations. But IF there 25GB of audio, i don`t mind. =)
So again, what`s the problem here? Who is UNHAPPY?

The first part doesn't make any sense at all. Does that mean if the disk was only 45GB and not 50GB, it wouldn't sell? Being full does not = fun. And being a MGS game has nothing to do with it.

And yes, the second part is just speculations, but the space has to be going somewhere. Unless of course, he's lying and the disk isn't full. Then this whole conversation doesn't matter.