Whoa!! Kojima: "Blu-ray Disc Not Big Enough for MGS4″

[Lone_Canis_Lupus]

FJ-Warez said:

Lone_Canis_Lupus said:

FJ-Warez said:

 

1.- First, audio is not "game", maybe 2/3 of the disc space is audio...

2.- What does the ingame control has to do with this discusion about the reason of the "50 gbs is not enough" statement???

3.- Theres a lot of values calculated for each frame, please, if you don't know how an engine works, stop make assumptions like this...

4.- Knobody has stated the opposite... and why you keep bringgin off topic things???

5.- In game videos are used to hide load times using very few resources, thats why I don't think they are going to use them, because so far the videos showed have a lot of quality, they look a lot better than just a ingame video...

1. Correction, as you saw in my edit, it's 2/5's of the disc space. Also, the audio can be counted as part of the game if it is used in the game.

2. Quality might suffer in actual gameplay than it does in-game video with no interaction at all. That's my point.

3. Then more values are calculated in the actual gameplay along with the frame value. You guys said yourselves the 360 and PS3 "can't handle 1080p." There might be some point between them where in-game video can be flawless and where more processing just degrades the quality. After all, the CELL does help out the GPU somewhat.

4. Because you brought up the whole "Quality doesn't match thing", I'm debunking this. My point in saying that is, the extra processing while actually playing the game might degrade the quality compared to the in-game videos.

5. There you go. If they're using very few resources to load, then they can be using a majority of those resources for the in-game rendering. If they can cut down the size of the area to only a small area they need for the actual video, not as much RAM will be taken up for graphics processing.

 

I'm not giving that as evidence to it being in-game, just giving you a reasonable doubt about the whole "It has to be prerendered because of the difference" thing. This is in 1080p, a much larger area could be loaded into the RAM when actually playing the game, and a lot more is going on to process while actually playing the game. All I'm saying is that quality might suffer somewhat when actually playing the game.

The "Quality is different" argument I don't think really holds water when considering those factors. Like I said, considering it's 1080p it might be easy to go from really good quality to worse quality. A larger area could be loaded into the RAM when playing the game so loading times are minimal compared to the in-game rendering. Last, a lot of extra values could be processed as well as the graphics and audio while actually playing the game.

This is pointless,... is more like "What do you want to be vs what he said and what we do think about it..."

He never said anything about ingame video, but clearly said how Sony is pushing for 1080 content to make the game unavaliable to fit in one DVD (He is talking about video, not sound).... MGS and any other game of the saga relies and a lot in cut scenes... the game is almost a movie, and he said how is Sony pushing to use 1080 content what makes you think he is going to use the ingame videos??? Clearly you don't want to believe it...

Second, the whole issue about the ingame videos, is this: "They are used to hide load times, they are made using existing data in the ram like models and textures, when you see any ingame video you are watching a lot of game content, thats the purpose, re-use existing data, thats how it works, thats why you can clearly see a big difference between in game videos and prerendered cut scenes..."

If you want to believe or not, thats another issue, but most of the people here agree with the FMV taking a lot of space... so far you haven't give us a "real" reason to believe the opposite...

 I'm not saying what I want it to be. He didn't say "the games are prerendered", he has been stressing that everything in there is in-game. So Sony is "forcing"(he hesitated at saying this) him to do 1080. What does that have to do with whether the videos are prerendered or in-game? You act like what he said in that is more important than anything else he's said. He's said all of it is in-game...is that worthless to you compared to what else he said? 

 You say I'm saying this because it's what I want. But you seem to want the videos to be prerendered. You'r e basing this off the fact the he said Sony was "forcing" him to do 1080. Maybe Sony was just pushing HD content. Doesn't matter if it's prerendered or in-game. Now, let me stress this again SIXTY HOURS of UNCOMPRESSED audio. Do you realize just how large that is? As well as Video and Audio aren't the only data in the game. You create enough content, and it will build-up and become large. Maybe he was including this full quality audio into HD as that is often put in the HD push, surround sound and all.

 All Kojima said was that Sony was pushing HD content, and in NO WAY said that they were pushing for this so it wouldn't fit on DVD. You're saying 1080 can't be rendered in-game? It HAS to be prerendered? Nice logic. You even said right there, there are a TON of cutscenes in MGS, maybe all that data for in-game videos builds up. After all, there must be a lot of polygons for a game to look that realistic...the data would probably build up quite quickly.  Clearly you don't want to believe that small things can build up.

 I know what in-game videos are. And I will say again, in a cutscene, you AREN'T doing anything. There are no values or a ton of extra stuff to process besides polygons, textures, and audio. No enemy AI is being handled. A bunch of stuff is going on during the game that is processed as well as the graphics. The in-game rendering is pre-written and pretty much linear from there while in-game so much different branches of things can happen. Don't tell me maxing out on processing doesn't degrade quality at all. The 1080p fact makes the difference much greater between the amount of processing.

 Yes, an FMV takes up a lot of space. But building up of small things can create a result just as big. Think about all the different content. Just like spending small amounts of money can build up over time...data can to. Think about coupons, going shopping for food. You can end up saving $50 total on stuff you didn't save very much on in the first place. Small amounts can build up to huge amounts. An FMV isn't the only explanation.