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Forums - Gaming - You know, if GamerGate gets large enough, it might do the unthinkable.

 

Will it stop console wars if it gets large enough?

Dude, stop. You'd take a... 29 18.83%
 
No. 87 56.49%
 
Yes. 12 7.79%
 
See results 26 16.88%
 
Total:154
RustyShakleford said:


Basically this is the main reason a lot of people (including me) don't respect the gamergate movement.  They got so angry at a women game developer because she slept with a game journalist.  This game was basically free and the game journalist didn't write an article about the game during their relationship.  This is what started the whole gamergate movement.  

Around the same time youtubers were getting early access to shadows of mordor if they didn't say anything negative about the game.  Gamergate was relatively silent about this.  Games journalism has had integrity issues before, but it was Quinn's personal life  that got them angry.   Of course it is all about integrity In games journalism...


Wrong. Wrong Wrong. This is what Anita S and her buddies in the gaming journalism industry want people to think with their hack articles though.



Getting an XBOX One for me is like being in a bad relationship but staying together because we have kids. XBone we have 20000+ achievement points, 2+ years of XBL Gold and 20000+ MS points. I think its best we stay together if only for the MS points.

Nintendo Treehouse is what happens when a publisher is confident and proud of its games and doesn't need to show CGI lies for five minutes.

-Jim Sterling

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o_O.Q said:

so now instead of actually analysing this power structure and how it works we have loads of gamergate people focused on how many men zoe quinn slept with


Zoe Quinn was pretty much out of the gamergate picture a week after gamergate started. Corrupt people in journalism that think that by telling people that it is about hating on Zoe, Anita and women in general it will deflcet from the actual  problems that gamergate is trying to bring to light. It clearly worked on you.



Getting an XBOX One for me is like being in a bad relationship but staying together because we have kids. XBone we have 20000+ achievement points, 2+ years of XBL Gold and 20000+ MS points. I think its best we stay together if only for the MS points.

Nintendo Treehouse is what happens when a publisher is confident and proud of its games and doesn't need to show CGI lies for five minutes.

-Jim Sterling

Jumpin said:

If anything, the stupidity around the whole thing is casting a negative stigma around the gaming community. Shit being produced by the idiots of the gaming community casts its stink on all of us. It needs to go away.


This



o_O.Q said:
sundin13 said:
pepharytheworm said:

Who said I wasn't egalitarian? Feminism doesn't cancel out egalitarianism.


Like I said, feminism has become something different than it originally was. A social movement is really only what those who identify under its banner turn it into. Feminists have turned feminism into something fairly twisted, and therefore, that is what feminism is. I don't disagree with the fundamentals of Feminism, I just dislike all the shit that gets piled up on top of that. 

This is no different than the people who attack GamerGate. It isn't and never was about mysogyny, but a few trolls made some comments and now that is all anyone ever talks about when it is brought up. GamerGate has become, to the masses and to outsiders, an anti-womens movement. That is why I make it clear what I am talking about whenever I discuss it, instead of just waving its banner and acting shocked when people don't understand me. 

Podings said:
I don't think uniting against an entirely fictional common enemy works for anyone other than the north koreans.

In what reality do you live in where the media isn't corrupt? I want to live there too...

o_O.Q said:

i personally believe that at this point gamergate is a fool's gambit

it started with exposing a lack of integrity in journalism and i completely respected that 

however, now it seems to be actually about attacking zoe quinn and anita sarkesian more than about getting to the bottom of the rabbit hole with regards to jounralism

when i first heard about it i was like people who aren't aware before that the media is only there to control their perception are now paying attention? this is great!

but now several weeks later i personally don't see any progression with regards to an investigation into journalism


I think you got the order of things backwards. It started with people exposing all the shit around Zoe Quinn and then, when it began to fall under the GamerGate banner, it became about corruption in the media (the SJW-nature of some media falls under the "clickbait/sensationalism" section of corruption). 

"but now several weeks later i personally don't see any progression with regards to an investigation into journalism": What do you mean by investigation? Nobody denies the nepotism in the industry. Even industry figures acknowledge that it is going on, they just disagree on whether or not it matters. Even still, progress has been fairly quiet, but there have been quite a few sites who have updated their disclosure policies to be more open with readers. 

GamerGate isn't an "investigation", it is a social movement. It is there to raise awareness and spark conversation...I'd say that it met that goal, however, not without a plethora of unwanted side effects.


oh i was wrong then i said that because most of the comments that i see now are adhominem attacks like what i described whereas before comments seemed more focused on the integrity of journalism

but yeah i was never involved too deeply in this

 

by investigation i'm talking about acquiring facts on a particular issue

well if there is no investigation into what is going on or in other words no one is attempting to reveal other cases where corruption has influenced media then what is the point of continuing gamergate?

to me it seems naive to believe that showing 1 or 2 cases where this has happened will demonstrate that there is a problem that needs attention

i would think that the way forward would be to gather more information about other cases where corruption is influencing media to show that it really is a substantial problem

otherwise most people are not going to take you seriously

i'm betting that a year from now everything will be back to how it was previously except that the general public is going to perceive gamers in a more negative way... so what was the point?


"It is there to raise awareness and spark conversation...I'd say that it met that goal"

therefore the goal was only ever to talk about a problem and not attempt to change it?

seems kind of pointless to me... although come to think of it that's right nothing has changed really...

except the lives of zoe quinn and anita sarkesian who are under constant attack because of this movement

now i do think they deserve some criticism but as i said earlier a lot of it is just misogynistic bs


"well if there is no investigation into what is going on or in other words no one is attempting to reveal other cases where corruption has influenced media then what is the point of continuing gamergate?" and "therefore the goal was only ever to talk about a problem and not attempt to change it?":


Like I said, the problem isn't proving people that there is corruption in the gaming media, it is convincing people that it matters. The media doesn't really try to deny that there is some shady stuff going on, they just think it doesn't really matter (even look outside of the gaming media at Colbert laughing at the thought that people care about game media corruption). 

Who is to say that talking never helped anything? Talking is the thing that we are lacking. Talking is the problem. We need a dialogue. We need openness. We need communication between the press and the gamers. We are talking about the problems, trying to show people why they matter and trying to think of ways to help. As I said, numerous sites have already changed their disclosure policies, however there just isn't enough dialogue. So many people are content to just sweep this all under the rug and these discussions keep arising because we don't want this to be forgotten and ignored. We want to keep talking about it until people start realizing we want change. Unfortunately, the media has effectively destroyed the power of GamerGate, protecting themselves from its effects. Even still, I think a lot of people will start asking questions where none were asked before...

"except the lives of zoe quinn and anita sarkesian who are under constant attack because of this movement":

Anita was under attack long before GamerGate, and I don't believe any of the threats they received are connected directly to GamerGate. In fact, GamerGate has long moved on from either of these two, it is the anti-GamerGate folk who seem to love dragging them back in. 



CDiablo said:
o_O.Q said:

so now instead of actually analysing this power structure and how it works we have loads of gamergate people focused on how many men zoe quinn slept with


Zoe Quinn was pretty much out of the gamergate picture a week after gamergate started. Corrupt people in journalism that think that by telling people that it is about hating on Zoe, Anita and women in general it will deflcet from the actual  problems that gamergate is trying to bring to light. It clearly worked on you.


then why am i seeing people who claim to be associated with gamergate still attacking her to this day?

you have to understand that what your personal objectives are for this movement are not necessaily those of the other people who back it

that's why i said that the goal needs to be focused on investigating corruption in journalism

otherwise all gamergate will acheive is the reinforcement of the negative perceptions people have about gamers



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Equal rights between men and women eh?

Sorry, but the fact of the matter is men and women are not equal. In many things, men are better. In other things, women are better. Are you going to suddenly tell me that the NBA should integrate men and women in the name of equality? Should we pay female basketball players the same money as male basketball players?

That's just stupid. We live in a world where men and women have different strengths. Equality for sexes is impossible and if you try to do it, you just wind up with a bunch of crap that doesn't make sense.

So yes, feminism is garbage.



If GG was ever actually about gaming or anything related to gaming it might. So far it's just a bunch of pissed off guys harassing woman and trying to keep them out of their gaming community. Then there are feminists attacking back. It's not going to stop the console war the same way invading invading Iraq didn't end the war in Afghanistan. It simply just started a new war. That's all this was, one angry ex boyfriend and a bunch of angry chan/twitter trolls/MRA's starting a different war because games as we knew them changed and are changing and woman are getting a stronger influence/presence in gaming and some people simply think that is not their place.



http://www.youtube.com/v/AoOOpLpcF28 http://www.youtube.com/v/CphFZGH5030

All Hail the Jester King. The King is back, and I am still a dirty girl prof ;)

Nicklesbe said:

If GG was ever actually about gaming or anything related to gaming it might. So far it's just a bunch of pissed off guys harassing woman and trying to keep them out of their gaming community. Then there are feminists attacking back. It's not going to stop the console war the same way invading invading Iraq didn't end the war in Afghanistan. It simply just started a new war. That's all this was, one angry ex boyfriend and a bunch of angry chan/twitter trolls/MRA's starting a different war because games as we knew them changed and are changing and woman are getting a stronger influence/presence in gaming and some people simply think that is not their place.

Here, educate yourself a bit:



HoloDust said:
Nicklesbe said:

If GG was ever actually about gaming or anything related to gaming it might. So far it's just a bunch of pissed off guys harassing woman and trying to keep them out of their gaming community. Then there are feminists attacking back. It's not going to stop the console war the same way invading invading Iraq didn't end the war in Afghanistan. It simply just started a new war. That's all this was, one angry ex boyfriend and a bunch of angry chan/twitter trolls/MRA's starting a different war because games as we knew them changed and are changing and woman are getting a stronger influence/presence in gaming and some people simply think that is not their place.

Here, educate yourself a bit:

 

Oh I have. there is no doubt what those peoples true intentions were. Sure there is a lot of discussion going around about it but there is no doubt there is shit tons of hate and propaganda comming from those that started it all on the chans/twitter.



http://www.youtube.com/v/AoOOpLpcF28 http://www.youtube.com/v/CphFZGH5030

All Hail the Jester King. The King is back, and I am still a dirty girl prof ;)

HoloDust said:

Here, educate yourself a bit:

It seems most of the discussion or disagreements came when talking about gender politics in gaming. Now, I don't think there is anything wrong with having these discussions (although I certainly don't think reviews are the right place for that), but I think we need to change a few things:

First of all, as TB hinted at, but didn't directly say, the media has a lot of power. That is something that always needs to be kept in mind in these discussions. The games media are immensely powerful when it comes to influencing opinions, with things like giving certain games more publicity or outright denying publicity in addition to the power of review scores and aggregates. The media is powerful enough to destroy a game before it is even released.

Second, I think sensationalism plays a decently large part in many of our gender politics conversations. While freedom should be granted to journalists to express their opinion, we reach a point where we are no longer receiving video game news, so much as tabloids printed to piss people off. There is no real way to quantify this, but it does seem fairly obvious when looking at how GamerGate was handled by the media. Either there was a massive wave of ignorance and a lack of investigations within the media, or sensationalism took hold and they printed stories for hits. How do we condemn this practice while allowing discussion to happen? I think the first step is to change the way you write about these issues. Many times these stories are accusatory and scandalous instead of being open minded and constructive. Unfortunately there is no way to push sensationalism out of the media, but if anyone wants to take steps towards a civil discussion, don't try to do it in a way that is designed to piss people off (just look at all of those anti-gamer pieces that I believe were referenced in the video).

Third, I think the collaboration between the media needs to be severely restricted. While it is natural that many of these people may become friends, it limits the ability to express views counter to the popular belief. This creates a very strong group thinking atmosphere and makes people scared or reluctant to post their honest opinions. This is really dangerous. Having people who speak up about gender issues is quite fine, but this needs to be a discussion, not an assault. We need people on both sides. Many times, GamerGate has been painted as being the attacking side, but people on both sides get a lot of flak for their opinions. When you are in the groupthink atmosphere of journalism, counter opinions are really dangerous. Instead of sitting down and thinking about how you are all going to orchestrate an anti-gamer movement, just let everyone come up with their own opinions...I don't think this particular side of things gets enough discussion.