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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Shinen is using triple buffering for the gbuffer on Fast Racing Neo, bandwidth is not a problem

fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:

What's wrong with liking a studio? They're not even one of my favourites, I wouldn't put them in the same league as Retro, Monolith, Naughty Dog, Platinum, or Tokyo EAD.

I just respect their engineering capabilities, fan engagement, and the way their games remind me of modernized PS1/N64 classics.

Might I ask, but what exactly is so special about Shin'en's engineering capabilities ? 

After all, these guys aren't even in the forefront graphical innovations compared to the developers from AAA studio's who show up at SIGGRAPH with their impressive showcases and presentations ... 

Hell, I find the 3 year old work that Cyril Crassin produced at Nvidia more grand than what Shin'en ever did ...

They pushed the hardware of the GBA, DS, 3DS, and Wii further than almost any other dev. Their ability to squeeze results out of modest hardware is exceptional, and almost unmatched. 



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curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:

What's wrong with liking a studio? They're not even one of my favourites, I wouldn't put them in the same league as Retro, Monolith, Naughty Dog, Platinum, or Tokyo EAD.

I just respect their engineering capabilities, fan engagement, and the way their games remind me of modernized PS1/N64 classics.

Might I ask, but what exactly is so special about Shin'en's engineering capabilities ? 

After all, these guys aren't even in the forefront graphical innovations compared to the developers from AAA studio's who show up at SIGGRAPH with their impressive showcases and presentations ... 

Hell, I find the 3 year old work that Cyril Crassin produced at Nvidia more grand than what Shin'en ever did ...

They pushed the hardware of the GBA, DS, 3DS, and Wii further than almost any other dev. Their ability to squeeze results out of modest hardware is exceptional, and almost unmatched. 

I thought that was VD Dev that does that.



curl-6 said:

They pushed the hardware of the GBA, DS, 3DS, and Wii further than almost any other dev. Their ability to squeeze results out of modest hardware is exceptional, and almost unmatched. 

Is that it ? That's not exactly innovating ...



fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:

What's wrong with liking a studio? They're not even one of my favourites, I wouldn't put them in the same league as Retro, Monolith, Naughty Dog, Platinum, or Tokyo EAD.

I just respect their engineering capabilities, fan engagement, and the way their games remind me of modernized PS1/N64 classics.

Might I ask, but what exactly is so special about Shin'en's engineering capabilities ? 

After all, these guys aren't even in the forefront graphical innovations compared to the developers from AAA studio's who show up at SIGGRAPH with their impressive showcases and presentations ... 

Hell, I find the 3 year old work that Cyril Crassin produced at Nvidia more grand than what Shin'en ever did ...

Welcome to me arguing with Curl in another thread XD.  Though Curl, I'll get back to you in the other thread when I have time to sit down, read what you wrote (Assuming you're the one who responded), analyze and create a proper response.  



darkknightkryta said:

Welcome to me arguing with Curl in another thread XD.  Though Curl, I'll get back to you in the other thread when I have time to sit down, read what you wrote (Assuming you're the one who responded), analyze and create a proper response.  

What ? I'm at a loss here ... XD 



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fatslob-:O said:
Pemalite said:


Nope, Evergreen did not, this was a hardware bug, not a software one.
Keep in mind I had a pair of Radeon 5870's then upgraded to a pair of Radeon 6950's and the difference in some games was actually startling. (In-fact I have had at-least one of ATI's high-end cards starting with the dual-GPU ATI Rage Fury MAXX.)
Anand reported on it here: http://www.anandtech.com/show/3987/amds-radeon-6870-6850-renewing-competition-in-the-midrange-market/5

Nvidia claims otherwise ... The HD 6000 series did have better texture filtering but there's no such thing as "correct" anisotropic filtering since the whole concept is arbitrary. Nvidia may have handled the transitions better but angle independence is the only one to be able to fix cases like that to this ...

(I hope you didn't listen to guys like this ...) 

 


I know the 6000 series had better filtering, it's the reason why I ended up hanging onto them for a few years instead of flogging them off instantly like with the 5870's.
I'm not disgreeing with you on angle independant filtering, but keep in mind, that when AMD launched it on the 5000 series, there was a bug in the texture units, which caused this:


For clean textures, AMD certainly had an edge, but they fell flat on their faces with any noisy textures, which kept AMD from having "the best filtering" untill the 6000 series.

fatslob-:O said:

Judging from the description, you were ... Changing the texture quality for a surface on the fly implies that it is "mipmapping" in effect. 


It's not changing the texture quality, it's swapping the texture for a completely new one.

fatslob-:O said:

Being interoperable makes no difference as long as the compression algorithms support a common surface format. If your wondering about their similarities their both based off of S3TC and 3DC+ only builds upon it. There are no practical differences in terms of conserving memory usage (In fact it's worse when your using an INT8 texture which tons of games use.), the biggest change is increase in accuracy which translates to higher quality and Microsoft THEMSELVES say so ...


It does make a big difference, as you don't have to rework other systems to work with the new compression algorithm such as shading.

DXT compression for instance is inherintly bad with non-decal textures, 3dc is bloody fantastic with normal maps.


fatslob-:O said:

The big reason why we're focusing on power consumption rather than performance is for the purpose of exascale and there are better options such as stacked DRAM ...

It's mostly because mobile devices are more popular than fixed devices like a desktop PC or a Console, the shift from DDR3 to DDR4 brought with it power savings, LDDR3 is energy efficient too.
It's only natural for mainstream technologies to shift with the times to where the most growth is, it's what makes the most business sense at the end of the day.



Cats.



--::{PC Gaming Master Race}::--

fatslob-:O said:
darkknightkryta said:

Welcome to me arguing with Curl in another thread XD.  Though Curl, I'll get back to you in the other thread when I have time to sit down, read what you wrote (Assuming you're the one who responded), analyze and create a proper response.  

What ? I'm at a loss here ... XD 

I was arguing with him about how the Wii U is technically maxed out with PS3/360 type software.



Pemalite said:


I know the 6000 series had better filtering, it's the reason why I ended up hanging onto them for a few years instead of flogging them off instantly like with the 5870's.
I'm not disgreeing with you on angle independant filtering, but keep in mind, that when AMD launched it on the 5000 series, there was a bug in the texture units, which caused this:


For clean textures, AMD certainly had an edge, but they fell flat on their faces with any noisy textures, which kept AMD from having "the best filtering" untill the 6000 series.

You sure that wasn't a game bug and where was this issue identified ? 

Pemalite said:


It's not changing the texture quality, it's swapping the texture for a completely new one.

Why give objects two different surfaces ? (Unless for artistic reasons ...)

Pemalite said:


It does make a big difference, as you don't have to rework other systems to work with the new compression algorithm such as shading.

DXT compression for instance is inherintly bad with non-decal textures, 3dc is bloody fantastic with normal maps.

Texture compression/decompression is a fairly isolated process so there is little interaction with it and it only indirectly affects other parts of the graphics pipeline ...

I agree that 3DC is good with normal maps but it's not better than older texture compression algorithms in terms of compression ratios ...

Pemalite said:


Cats.

What about cats ? 



fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:

They pushed the hardware of the GBA, DS, 3DS, and Wii further than almost any other dev. Their ability to squeeze results out of modest hardware is exceptional, and almost unmatched. 

Is that it ? That's not exactly innovating ...

They are/were at the technical forefront of five different systems. That speaks to their talent. Almost no others devs have rivalled their work on GBA, DS, 3DS, Wii, and Wii U.



curl-6 said:

They are/were at the technical forefront of five different systems. That speaks to their talent. Almost no others devs have rivalled their work on GBA, DS, 3DS, Wii, and Wii U.

Not for the whole industry and all the while making no technical innovations at the same time ? 

I think your giving Shin'en too much credit and the rest of the AAA studio's not enough credit on their engineering talent ...