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Forums - Politics Discussion - Scotland to leave the UK?

 

Should Scotland leave the union? If yes or no please say why.

Yes 152 43.80%
 
No 143 41.21%
 
It does not matter 26 7.49%
 
I dont understand 26 7.49%
 
Total:347

Doesn't Scotland have a huge oil reserve in the Northern Sea? As long as they can manage that right I don't see why they will have economic problems.



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Yes. Irish, Scottish and Welsh are Celts. English are Saxons i.e. Germans. And so is the Royal Family. You know India and China. They are genetically and ethnically different. Same in the UK



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Zekkyou said:
Metrium said:
If I lived in a country that still acts like if this was the 17th century where it's ok to be ruled by queens, dukes and princes, I would certainly want to leave.

It's funny you say that, because your VGC page says you live in Canada. One of her official titles is in-fact the "Queen of Canada", since Canada still exist under the monarchy in a form. She's the granny on your $20 notes.

Anyway, we aren't rules by her or the royal family. The queen is mostly just a figure head who has a very small amount of theoretical power. For the most part she just engages in formalities like swearing in the new prime ministers etc.

There isn't much reason to get rid of them, so we don't. As well as being great for tourism and a part of our national identity, they happen to be the largest land owners on the planet Without getting into details, we make almost £160m in profit every year simply by keeping them around. Dat sweet sweet Crown Estate revenue deal.



Have you heard of HMRC?

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Aura7541 said:
I feel that Scotland's demand for independence is emotionally driven. I'm very concerned on whether they have what it takes to maintain themselves economically.

Yes, for many, it is emotionally driven, but the same can equally be said for both Yes and No voters; just look at the passionate unionist on Question Time as an example of that. Indeed, as an interesting aside to this, it was widely reported here in Scotland that those who prefer to seek out facts are mostly choosing Yes over No, which was one of the reasons for the massive swing to Yes recently.

As for the finances? Scotland will be fine. It's already one of the richest countries in the world, after all (top 20, as I remember; 14th is it?). I'm not saying it will be easy, but it will be fine should it get an unlikely Yes vote. there are many articles about this online if you're interested. No one here in Scotland doubts this part of it, they doubt whether all the hassle and risks of being independant is worth it for the advantages.



Hapimeses said:
MoHasanie said:
I think Scottish people are gonna make a huge mistake if they decide to vote for independence.

Can you explain why?

I don't think they've thought this through. 5m people only, and the major companies will probably relocate to London. That will hurt the Scottish economy. 



    

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The Fury said:
Hapimeses said:
XanderXT said:
Being part British myself, it's strange on why they want right now to become independent.

It's not a 'right now' matter. The desire for Scottish independence is old. The opportunity for this referendum arose because the SNP managed a majority at the last Scottish parliamentary election, and were in a position to push it forward. So they did. And we have a vote coming up.

I presume he means now as in after after the ecomonic issues. If UK and world economy was strong, lets say like it was in the late 90s, many might not have had as much concern of uncertainy as they do now.

I understood that. However, as I said, the opportunity to politically secure a referendum did not exist then, or, indeed, at any other time. It exists now, and only because the SNP secured an almost unbelievable majority in the Scottish parliament. The opportunity will likely not come again for a very, very long time, so given the SNP's raison d'etre is independence, they couldn't very well get into power and not push for a referendum on the matter. Yes, the timing could have been better, but they took what they had and worked with it.

In short, I'm sure the SNP would have preferred a more favourable environment, fiscally, for the vote, but they didn't have that choice.

Nevertheless, I think they've actually been pretty lucky with their timing, all things considered. We currently have one of the least popular governments in recent history in Westminster as far as Scotland is concerned, and that has really played into the Yes campaign's hands, primarily as Scotland did not vote for any of its policies, yet is having many of them forced upon it.



Hapimeses said:

Nevertheless, I think they've actually been pretty lucky with their timing, all things considered. We currently have one of the least popular governments in recent history in Westminster as far as Scotland is concerned, and that has really played into the Yes campaign's hands, primarily as Scotland did not vote for any of its policies, yet is having many of them forced upon it.

LIke the rest of the UK likes them, have you seen Cameron's smarmy face? Salmond is no better mind. All greedy politicians in the end. I didn't vote for Conservative last election, these policies are beng forced upon me too. Scottish MPs in Westminster, while maybe not in power, still get a vote on laws and policies, it's not like only English people are deciding Scotland's fate.



Hmm, pie.

Metrium said:
MoHasanie said:

Metrium said:

 Yep :) Why would I care otherwise? lol :P

 

Quebec would struggle on its own. The population is just 8 million and its aging. Many english speakers would also leave the province if it became independant. You've got the highest taxes in North America, which would only go up and most of your trade would be with Ontario. The federal government also gives you a lot of money so you'd lose that. So really, there's no point in separating cause you will end up hurting yourselves. 


The aging population is no longer true since a few years now, since the last 5years or so our population has been growing. And I don't see how a population of only 8million is so bad since alot of country is even lower.

If these english speakers feel so intimidated by a strong french culture and refuse to assimilate themselves to the point where theyd rather leave, so be it. Montréal is already filled with english speakers that refuse to speak or learn french despite the french majority. They see themselves above ''the indigenous'' to learn our language, forcing the majority around them to speak their language. I would'nt mind seeing these ppl go. And these are not at all every english speakers that are this way, a minority of them, but these are the majority that would leave. Also, lots of them talk about it, it's easy to talk about threatening of leaving, but if québec would really become independant and it would be time to turn these threats into actions, most of them would'nt bother.

The federal government does'nt ''give'' us money. We the people of Québec pay federal taxs, that's what those taxs are for. Federal taxs that we would stop paying if we were independant. Probably we would'nt pay less taxs since we would probably still pay the same amount but this time to the province. The difference is that instead of paying that federal tax that partly goes back to us, but a big part also goes to oil sands, submarines and other things that quebecers don't care about, that federal tax would entirely go to us.

I think as we speak, our bigest trade partner are the USA but I'm not sure enough to call it a fact since I could be wrong, we sell them alot of hydro electricity and Québec has so many ressources to trade. We have hydro electricity, tons of minerals in the north, apples, diary farms etc.

The population has been growing mainly due to an increase in immigration from French speaking North African countries. 

If Quebec were to become inependant, French would be the main language. Up till now, there are still people that live in Quebec that don't speak French. Those people would certainly leave. 

Your biggest trade partner is USA now but there's no gurantee that you'll be part of the North American Free Trade bloc. 

 

Here is a paragraph from a report that was released that studied how Quebec benefits from being part of Canada: 

There is a belief among separatists that, in leaving the Canadian federation and repatriating the taxes paid to the 

government federal, Québec find itself with an important surplus of revenues plus would be able to eliminate any 

deficit and ensure funding of all current provincial programs, plus those it would inherit from the Canadian 

government. That thesis goes against all economic logic. Québec contributes 20% of the revenues of the Canadian 

government while a big part of federal spending in the province is done on a per-capita basis, meaning that 

Québec receives 23.5% of the moneys paid out by Ottawa. Moreover, programs like defence, international 

relations, transport and others entail important economies of scale, scope, network and coordination, economies 

that would be lost if Québec decided to go it alone.



    

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JazzB1987 said:
binary solo said:
JazzB1987 said:
Serious_frusting said:

Its a real hot debate. If you have been keeping track the polls are showing it can swing one way or the other. If Scotland do vote to leave the union then the UK is going to lose like 7 million or so people. I have always seen the welsh, scotish and english culture as one. I mean the royal fam have scottish roots afterall.

 

I am just wondering what others are thinking about this vote.

 

I think it is wrong that scotch people who live in England have no vote about it. I would like to here anyones opinion on this.

Well the royal Family is  Saxony-Coburg-Gotha. Windsor is just the name of their mansion.  Which makes them basically German. I want to see you explain the british that they are Germans :)


TBH I would like to see Scotland be independent. Will certainly shake things up a bit about  "this is territory of country X"   "A belongs to B" etc etc.  I mean if politicians ignore the will of a "minority" then that minority should be allowed to be independent etc.

What a strange and ridiculous notion, in this context. If 49.9% of Scots vote for independence and 50.1% vote to stay with the union how would you propose to give that large minority independence? They will be scattered throughout Scotland, so would you round them all up and plonk them into Glasgow and make this an independent enclave, and have all Glaswegians who voted to stay in the Union move somewhere else?

This is about a group of people  49% of scots are still scots asking every single individual will make things way to complicated. And I was talking about a minority in the sense of ethnicity/race/group  "not just less people". People should decide what group of people they want to be identified with as long as they DO have a connection with that group.

THAT SAID THO if you as an individual dont want to be part of your country you should be allowed to be independent. You have to accept all the disadvantages tho. Like border checkpoints all around your property, paying to use the other countries roads and needing a Visa or whatever. If you accept those annoying things no matter how ridiculous they are noone should force you to be part of something you dont want to be a part of.

Forcing people into countries etc is complete nonsense.


Oh dear, you're one of those. Well there is absolutely no point in carrying on a conversation.



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