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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Microsoft admits to dodging $29B in taxes. Yes, billion with a B.

overman1 said:
Baalzamon said:
Who cares? The money was made in another country, it shouldn't be taxed in the US anyways.

do you understand how the us tax system works?

 

http://youtu.be/22HcvlmfRZY?t=27s

 

Even the crazy know what you mean.



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AgentZorn said:

San Jose State University, the university i currently go to, is going through a budget crisis. Tuition is increasing, classes are being cut, theres not enough teachers etc. However, the university seems to have enough money in order to make a new student health center, expand the sport comlex, and remodeling. A few years back there was a bit of a scandel were the head of a department used school money to remodel his mansion.

We really need to rework the education system, but sadly many people don't get off their asses and fix the problem.

Similar things happened at my school. They even completely remodeled one building twice in about three years, when it looked perfectly fine originally, and while nicer, looked perfectly fine after the first remodel too, but they apparently needed to redo it yet again.

One thing you need to consider though is oftentimes money provided to schools has conditions attached to it. For example, I could provide $10,000 a year towards my school, but say it must be used on new computers in an Accounting lab every single year. Even though the school really doesn't need this, it is the only thing they can spend it on, so it winds up appearing ridiculous to others.



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.

sc94597 said:
Zackasaurus-rex said:

sc94597 said:

 Of course Wall Street does, it is by its very nature corporatist, and it supports corporatism (the merger of corporations and states.) Wall-street continues to support legislators and regulators who support corporatism in opposition to free-markets. 

 

"Corporatism" is the natural evolution of capitalism whenever there is a state. It is a market advantage to use the state, and it is a political advantage to use the markets.

 

Fascism (and thus the creation of an exceptionally bad state) is the natural evolution of capitalism without a state. Anarchy and private hierarchy are incompatible. 

 

The fallacy that the "free market" can exist in a bubble outside of politics needs to be laid to rest. If you want to preserve the neoclassical status quo, you first need to acknowledge that fact, so that serious legislative, constitutional, and cultural changes can be considered.

Your definition of fascism seems off. Fascism cannot exist without a state, because it is defined by a totalitarian state. And fascism has nothing to do with capitalism, but rather much to do with the syndicalism which opposed capitalism in the early 20th century, often tethered with populist rhetoric. Corporatism is just syndicalism that doesn't oppose the traditional marxist definition of "capitalism" but more-so free-market economies (which most socialists supported in the 19th century - because most socialists were mutualists not marxists.) 

You misunderstand me, and I don't need Wikipedia links. I do political philosophy for a living. But thanks! c:

What I am saying is that capitalism and anarchy cannot co-exist, as any attempt leads to private tyranny, the formation of a state, and thus some variant of a fascist or perhaps monarchist institution. Private control, unleashed, expands exponentially. Your "free market" is dependent on a state. And, yes, that state also has the potential to destroy said market. It's a balancing act. The very formation of the capitalist economy depended on statist mercantilism in order to even get started. I wrote a paper on it not long ago, actually, as it's a history I find full of interesting implications.

Syndicalism is a form of union-based socialism, with the means of production democratically controlled by the workers, with elected management and institutions to protect that. It's a theory of democratic economics which is indeed opposed to privatised economics.

Mutualists, for the record, opposed private economic control. Mutualism is a socialist-anarchist philosophy advocating a communal culture based on voluntary contribution. It's decidedly an anti-capitalist philosophy and was created by an anti-capitalist philosopher (Proudhon, who claimed that all private property is theft from society).

Fascism is absolutely not syndicalism. It in fact stands in absolute opposition to it. For one thing, syndicalism is related to the anarchist school of thought. Some syndicalists are in fact anarchists, and others propose a very minimalist democratic state for managing legal/production conflicts. Whereas, fascism is a super-statist ideology based on the idea that capitalism is good, but that it eventually decays under decadence. Fascism thus takes a strongly centralized right-wing government with a nearly limitless leader and uses that to manage and assist the capitalist class while attempting to uplift lower classes into a middle class status (as long as those lower/middle class individuals meet the terms of the fascist, be they religious, racist, ideological, etc.).

Thus, syndicalism is workers' management of formerly capitalist production, while fascism is statist management of capitalist production.

Corporatism is also a radical departure from syndicalism. Corporatism is modern capitalism, to which syndicalism is entirely opposed. With the growth of the capitalist class into a super-capitalist class owning/maintaining enormous corporations on an international level and reaping profits at previously uncomprehensible levels, capitalists found that it made good business sense to use said money to influence the state in their favour. At the same time, those politicians who are courted benefit from the bribes and support. Effectively, corporatism is the stage of capitalism in which the oligarchy is made concrete, eradicating practical democracy and limiting competition wherever possible. At the same time, it limits the cooperation of anyone not in that ruling body.

If you want to be a defender of lower-stage capitalism and oppose higher stages of capitalism like corporatism and imperialism, then you need to advocate cultural and political change in order to limit how much power private individuals can acquire. You might find Robert Reich's book, Supercapitalism, to be in line with your views. c:

Personally, I think the idea that this balance can be struck is foolhardy, and that more radical change is in order. We probably disagree on that matter.



Imaginedvl said:

lol another Daredevil "great" linked bad article about Microsoft...
EVERY companies does that, including Sony and others.

So why is this a worthy news?


Just more attempts at bashing MS



sc94597 said:
thx1139 said:

My take on the whole charter school and vouchers for schools are they are really just away for people who dont want either a secular education or dont want money to both public schools through taxes while they send thier kids to private schools.  This way they get money back from the taxes they pay or they can choose a school that doesnt teach that evil stuff like evolution.

The myth is that they are paying to educate their children. Why can't they educate their children how they wish? Oh yeah, school isn't about education it is about state indoctrination. 

They can, no one is stopping them, but for the better of society as a whole we have a public education system. They can opt out sending their own kids, but they cant opt out of the funding.  There is more religious indoctrination going on then state indoctrination by the way.



Its libraries that sell systems not a single game.

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sc94597 said:
thx1139 said:

Recently I listened to a talk about a recent study and it came down to this. All poor scores are all about poverty. Was something like in districts with 80 or 90% of children 150% or more above the poverty level the US leads the world in scores.  It is children in poverty that bring the scores down.  Most of the rest of the 1st world have much stronger social safety nets and because of this poor children dont perform well at all in the US.

If we are to speak of absolute poverty and not relative poverty, the United States does not have many more poor people (as a percentage) than a lot of these countries that succeed it, even if we speak of social safety nets. I really don't see how poverty can be the major determing factor when education is mostly socialized in the U.S. One can argue that less of an emphasis is put on education by poor parents and neighborrs, but that is a cultural quality, and certainly not something that can be fixed by more spending or social safety net. The only solution to that is greater economic prosperity that emphasizes the role of self-improvement and education, and which motivates these poor parents and neighbors to influence students toward better education. 

Most of the countries that have better scores do better with social safety net programs like feeding kids. A kid that is hungry doesnt learn well. Like either subsidies for single mother or poorer familes so the kids have care givers rather then people working multiple jobs and the kids being taken care of by the TV.  So our direct spending for the schools are higher, but the indirect taking care of the poor children results in poorer results.  So our poor kids go to school hungry and go home to an empty home. Other countries poor kids get fed and go home to a caregiver who has the time to work on studies with the kid.



Its libraries that sell systems not a single game.

Baalzamon said:
thx1139 said:

But you can also avoid that. I for instance have a 2% LOC against my investments so I can gain access to the gains without actually selling the stock.  When I pass away if I leave stock to my kids the capital gains on that stock is erased.  The kids if they sell the stock immediatly are accessed gains at the price the stock was at when I left it to them. Not what I paid for them. So for instance I bought Apple at like $50 before the split. I bought MS at like $20. I can just hold those stocks and they gain gain gain. Say I drop dead. My kids get the Apple stock which is now roughly a $650 per share gain.  My kids wouldnt pay tax on the $650 they would pay no tax if they sold it as soon as they got it.  See how the game is rigged for the aristocracy. Hold your capital gains, get a low interest loan to access the value and leave to your heirs basically tax free.  

Oh believe me, I know there are tons of perfectly legal ways to avoid paying tax. But the situation you described is limited to the estate exclusion anyways, after which they would be paying a 35% estate tax (as well as additional state estate taxes, if your state has them, like mine does).

Besides that, there are numerous reasons to not use a LOC against investments.

A) It is risky, as your investments could dramatically decrease in value in a short time span

B) The purpose of me saving, and working to pay off huge things as fast as possible is so I don't have to deal with debt anymore. I could probably make loads more in the market investing than I would pay for interest on a home, too, but I would much rather pay the home off quickly and get it out of my way and get rid of the stress associated with it.

If you like a life riddled with debt and the stress associated for it just to avoid a measley 15% LTCG tax rate, then all the power to you, though.

Between my wife and I our kids are exempt from estate taxes for the first $10.5 million of our estate. OK we are doing very well, but not that well.  Well I am a firm believer of measureing return on investment. Paying off a 3% mortgage with money i could have in liquid investments is poor money management in my opinion.  As for the LOC if I have the discipline to invest I have the discipline to keep the LOC at a low enough amount. In reality I rarely every use it. 

By the way the LOC route is how Marc Zuckerberg has disclosed he will access his wealth. He will simply let his investments grow, live off his income and when he needs additional short term cash he uses the LOC.



Its libraries that sell systems not a single game.

overman1 said:
lol
can't actually believe people in this thread are actually supporting this practices....
Then they wonder why the economy got so fucked up in the first place....


100% Agree, unbelievable people are backing ANY company over this, it happens a lot in the UK as well, its time it was Stamped out!



So what? Every company is doing this. The US's juducial system is completely broken and they're passing corporation and rich people friendly laws every weeks. Law makers in the US don't want corporations to pay taxes. They already pay less taxes than actual humans.

This won't affect anything since it's not against the law and they will keep doing it.



If you demand respect or gratitude for your volunteer work, you're doing volunteering wrong.

thx1139 said:

Between my wife and I our kids are exempt from estate taxes for the first $10.5 million of our estate. OK we are doing very well, but not that well.  Well I am a firm believer of measureing return on investment. Paying off a 3% mortgage with money i could have in liquid investments is poor money management in my opinion.  As for the LOC if I have the discipline to invest I have the discipline to keep the LOC at a low enough amount. In reality I rarely every use it. 

By the way the LOC route is how Marc Zuckerberg has disclosed he will access his wealth. He will simply let his investments grow, live off his income and when he needs additional short term cash he uses the LOC.

See, in MN, we already begin getting taxed after $1 million (so I believe it would be $2 million for a married couple).

Regarding the "poor" money management, as I said, I would certainly have more money in my retirement if I took the full 30 years to pay off the mortgage. But it isn't always about having the max amount of money...there is a tradeoff. And for me, I'd much rather have 20 years of being debt free and never worrying about a mortgage payment again. The decision especially becomes clear when even assuming unrealistically low raises, etc, I will have several million in retirement, which is more than I will need for the style of life I desire.

Regarding the LOC, whether a rich person does it really doesn't mean much, as a lot of rich people are notoriously terrible with their money (perfect example would be leasing instead of buying stuff). I've never really had, nor ever see myself having the need for what you refer to as short term cash via a loan, though. I have a philosophy you should just have a decent chunk of liquid money available, so if anything happens, it really never becomes a concern in the first place (once again, I could certainly invest this and make more money, but its the idea that I don't need that much more anyways).



Money can't buy happiness. Just video games, which make me happy.