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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Microsoft admits to dodging $29B in taxes. Yes, billion with a B.

thx1139 said:
overman1 said:
Baalzamon said:
overman1 said:

For who exactly?

Definitely not the middle class...

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/01/13/sunday-review/americas-productivity-climbs-but-wages-stagnate.html?_r=0

I don't know about you, but I make an average wage, and invest a significant amount of my money in the stock market. When those companies are making more money because they aren't paying taxes, my investments are growing faster. When I sell these investments, I pay my fair share to Uncle Sam (and rightfully so).

Good for you but not every American has that previldge and a lot of them are there by cicumstance and are just as hardworking as you can be. I am an unmarried US Navy trained Nuke Engineer with a bachelors degree. I will consider myself vey fortunate to be making the kind of money I make because I know alot of my friends who are just as educated as I am and still need a second sometimes third jobs to keep themselves and family afloat. 

And your value to society cant be measured by how much money you make.  Because teachers get paid less then an electrical engineer mean they add less value to society? Is a nurse less valuable to society then a stock broker? Is a social worker worth less to society then a computer programmer?

Sadly enough, in the US right now they are considered to be. Lets not even get into the idea of the educational system that is extremely flawed. Despite being one of the most important jobs, the teaching profession is not very prestigous or valued; teachers are severely underpaid and many state goverments are taking funding from school. The rich who are able to influence decision through the lobbying they do, are enrolling their own kids in Charter school. Now I have absolutely nothing with Charter school but when the public school system is rotting and there is no incentive for improvement why should the education matter again?



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Baalzamon said:
Who cares? The money was made in another country, it shouldn't be taxed in the US anyways.


Not how the tax system works in most western countries, if you make money while being based in the country you're liable to pay taxes as your business is still based in the country and you are operating under their laws and banner.

On topic $29B? The tax organisations are the strongest and scariest in any country after maybe the Banks, they can literally turn up and reposess all your goods, that's going to be a lot of profits used up to pay this off.



overman1 said:

 alot of my friends who are just as educated as I am and still need a second sometimes third jobs to keep themselves and family afloat. 

When you say, "just as educated" you mean in the same field right? The problem with today's graudates is that they don't specialize in fields that have demand. Unless you subscribe to the labor theory of value (solely) the value of goods or services is not determined by the amount of labor put into producing them, but also (or solely) by the subjective value they hold in the eyes of others. So it makes perfect sense, for those who don't subscribe to such a theory, that some people who work just as hard don't succeed as easily.



sc94597 said:
This thread is a great example of the theism of statism which runs rampant in certain groups.


Dont know why you have to be so extreme. The free market needs regulating especially consiering how immensely corrupt it is now. We definitely cannot trust coporations to regulate themselves (crash of 2008) so why cant the goverment do this? With all the rescent stories of coporate corruptions i dont see why you should too. The problem with the idea of true liberetarianism is trust. I dont fucking trust anyone whose main objective is to make money. I can trust such a person with the lives and wellbeing of others. That is just reality.




overman1 said:

Sadly enough, in the US right now they are considered to be. Lets not even get into the idea of the ducational system that is extremely flawed. Despite being one of the most important jobs, the teaching profession is not very pristigous or valued; teachers are severely underpaid and many goverements are taking funding from school. The rich who are able to influence decision through the lobbying they do are enrolling their own kids in Charter school. Now I have absolutely nothing with Charter school but when the public school system is rotting and there is no instentive for improvement why should the education matter again?

Why is it that the U.S spends more on average per student than most other first-world countries, yet produces some of the worst results? Oh yeah, the education system is too public. Compare, say, the U.S to Hong Kong or Japan. The issue isn't costs, but the system itself. Private schools and charter schools are a breath of fresh air for not only those who can afford them out of pocket, but the poor students whose education is subsidized (and costs reduced let me add.) 



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That's common practice, as far as I know.



"Trick shot? The trick is NOT to get shot." - Lucian

overman1 said:
sc94597 said:
This thread is a great example of the theism of statism which runs rampant in certain groups.


Dont know why you have to be so extreme. The free market needs regulating especially consiering how immensely corrupt it is now. We definitely cannot trust coporations to regulate themselves (crash of 2008) so why cant the goverment do this? With all the rescent stories of coporate corruptions i dont see why you should too. The problem with the idea of true liberetarianism is trust. I dont fucking trust anyone whose main objective is to make money. I can trust such a person with the lives and wellbeing of others. That is just reality.


Sorry, but the "crash of 2008" was caused by keynesian "stimulus", not some mythical free-market that hasn't existed in the U.S since the late 18th century. Goverment told banks to arbitrarily lend money, and guess what, people defaulted on their loans. In a free-market this bubble would never have happened, because these bubbles are created by state interventioned and the bursts are reactions to the actions that try to set the market straight. But this has nothing to do with regulation. This has to do with people thinking it is alright to tax (steal from) a corporation (or individual - the laws apply to the smallest man as well)  twice just because it started (was born in)  one state and accrues money in another (by the volutary exchange of the resources and services of individuals.) 



sc94597 said:
overman1 said:

 alot of my friends who are just as educated as I am and still need a second sometimes third jobs to keep themselves and family afloat. 

When you say, "just as educated" you mean in the same field right? The problem with today's graudates is that they don't specialize in fields that have demand. Unless you subscribe to the labor theory of value (solely) the value of goods or services is not determined by the amount of labor put into producing them, but also (or solely) by the subjective value they hold in the eyes of others. So it makes perfect sense, for those who don't subscribe to such a theory, that some people who work just as hard don't succeed as easily.

Not entire true...

First it is very hard to tell when a certain field is open for your knowledge nowadays. Unless you pick a very stable job like Doctor etc. you can be so sure about your field anymore, the free market now flutuates like hell.

Secondly, I have friends with Masters in Law, Computer Science, Physics, Biology and even Education but thety still cant find work. Unless they wouldnt might downgrading. The other problem is too many people are doing the same courses. the work section for certain jobs have shrink severely and these sectors are overmanned. Could they do something else? yes, would it pay as much as they would have if they got a job they studied for? No.

there are more collage graduate now than ever but yet many are still unemployed. 



sc94597 said:
overman1 said:

Sadly enough, in the US right now they are considered to be. Lets not even get into the idea of the ducational system that is extremely flawed. Despite being one of the most important jobs, the teaching profession is not very pristigous or valued; teachers are severely underpaid and many goverements are taking funding from school. The rich who are able to influence decision through the lobbying they do are enrolling their own kids in Charter school. Now I have absolutely nothing with Charter school but when the public school system is rotting and there is no instentive for improvement why should the education matter again?

Why is it that the U.S spends more on average per student than most other first-world countries, yet produces some of the worst results? Oh yeah, the education system is too public. Compare, say, the U.S to Hong Kong or Japan. The issue isn't costs, but the system itself. Private schools and charter schools are a breath of fresh air for not only those who can afford them out of pocket, but the poor students whose education is subsidized (and costs reduced let me add.) 

The US is also the most populous out of all those countries. You can combine the student population of 5 of those countries and it might equal to that of the US. Finland has a very prominent public educational system that takes very good care of its teachers and for this it is #1 world wide. Like I said before, I havve nothing against Charter school. But because of this, we do not allow the public school system to go to dust. Charter school is a luxury now in this economy. 



sc94597 said:
overman1 said:
sc94597 said:
This thread is a great example of the theism of statism which runs rampant in certain groups.


Dont know why you have to be so extreme. The free market needs regulating especially consiering how immensely corrupt it is now. We definitely cannot trust coporations to regulate themselves (crash of 2008) so why cant the goverment do this? With all the rescent stories of coporate corruptions i dont see why you should too. The problem with the idea of true liberetarianism is trust. I dont fucking trust anyone whose main objective is to make money. I can trust such a person with the lives and wellbeing of others. That is just reality.


Sorry, but the "crash of 2008" was caused by keynesian "stimulus", not some mythical free-market that hasn't existed in the U.S since the late 18th century. Goverment told banks to arbitrarily lend money, and guess what, people defaulted on their loans. In a free-market this bubble would never have happened, because these bubbles are created by state interventioned and the bursts are reactions to the actions that try to set the market straight. But this has nothing to do with regulation. This has to do with people thinking it is alright to tax (steal from) a corporation (or individual - the laws apply to the smallest man as well)  twice just because it started (was born in)  one state and accrues money in another (by the volutary exchange of the resources and services of individuals.) 

http://yanisvaroufakis.eu/2013/11/26/did-the-fed-cause-the-crash-of-2008/

Wall street does have hands in this....but itsnt entirely on the free market.