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Forums - Politics Discussion - Putin starts sanctions against EU/USA

 

Russia starts sanctions against the West. Is it

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Sharu on 07 August 2014
fighter said:
Sharu said:
fighter said:

throughout history russians have been very submissive to their leadership and are accustomed to suffer, i don't see any other country that is capable of enduring such a bad k/d ratio as the one they had in the eastern front  :

(for every german killed russia would lose 3 soldiers)

Date German forces Soviet forces
June 1941 3,767,000 (900,000 in the west) 2,680,000 (in theater) 5,500,000 (overall) (~700,000 in Far East[33])
June 1942 3,720,000 (80% in the East) 5,313,000 (~700,000 in Far East[33])
July 1943 3,933,000 (63% in the East) 6,724,000 (~700,000 in Far East[33])
June 1944 3,370,000 (62% in the East) 6,425,000 (~700,000 in Far East[33])
Jan. 1945 2,330,000 (60% in the East) 6,532,000 (Soviet build up in Far East accelerated greatly since February[33])
Apr 1945 1,960,000 6,410,000

This is a bit offtopic. But this figures are cheaty.

Soldiers losses (deaths) for Russia in WW2 was 6,3 mln soldiers killed or dead because of military damage. 555 thous. dead from illnesses/accidents. 4.5 mln - who was taken by Germans and reported a missing person. 


Total losses of USSR in WW2 was 26.6 million people. Around 15 million people was killed by Germans on a nazi occupied territory.

those figures are not deaths but troops present :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_(World_War_II)

 

Total german military losses : 4.3 M to 5.5 - 75 - 80 % in the eastern front = 3.22 to 4.4 : 

Total Russian military losses : 8.7 M to 13.85 M 

1. How the sent troops shows you the 'bad k/d ratio'?
2. You also forgetting about German allies losses. Everybody forgets that USSR was fighting now only with German during WW2. It was also Italy, Spain, French etc etc, in fact USSR was in a war against the whole United Europe (except UK).



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MoHasanie on 07 August 2014
WorldBreakerHulk said:
MoHasanie said:
Well depends on how reliant the EU and USA are on Russia and vice versa. Russia is quite self sufficient so I think they won't have too many problems with sanctions. The EU on the other needs Russia's oil and gas resources I believe.


Russia also need EU's money. They can't just suddenly shutoff its Gas to EU.. Well at least until they finish building that RUssia-China gas pipe. Currently, Russias biggest revenue comes from that EU-Russia gas deal.

Besides, that gas deal is the only thing that's making other countries in EU hesitant to impose a harsher sanction to Russia. If they suddenly cut off EUs gas. What's stopping EU+US complete isolation of Russia. It's like a guys killing his most important hostage.

That's true too. Well Russia could always threaten to cut gas supplies if they feel like the sactions are too harsh. But that will probably be the last thing to happen. Flight path restrictions will probably come first and could hurt some EU airlines heading to Asia. 



    

NNID: FrequentFlyer54

generic-user-1 on 07 August 2014
Sharu said:

Sanctions list is online.

Sanctions are against USA, EU, Norway and Australia. Russia stops importing beef, pork meat, chicken, fruits, cheese and milk products from those countries.

I'm a bit involved in an agricultural business in Russia. People are excited over this, at last the priority will be for the local producers!!!

they dont wanna hurt germany, thats why they go after the smaller countrys.

ohh and mb the russians would be pissed if they cant buy good beer...



Sharu on 07 August 2014
generic-user-1 said:
Sharu said:

Sanctions list is online.

Sanctions are against USA, EU, Norway and Australia. Russia stops importing beef, pork meat, chicken, fruits, cheese and milk products from those countries.

I'm a bit involved in an agricultural business in Russia. People are excited over this, at last the priority will be for the local producers!!!

they dont wanna hurt germany, thats why they go after the smaller countrys.

ohh and mb the russians would be pissed if they cant buy good beer...

Isn't Germany a part of a EU? Also the small local brewerys are very good in Russia. Came and try some Russian beers!



generic-user-1 on 07 August 2014
Sharu said:
generic-user-1 said:
Sharu said:

Sanctions list is online.

Sanctions are against USA, EU, Norway and Australia. Russia stops importing beef, pork meat, chicken, fruits, cheese and milk products from those countries.

I'm a bit involved in an agricultural business in Russia. People are excited over this, at last the priority will be for the local producers!!!

they dont wanna hurt germany, thats why they go after the smaller countrys.

ohh and mb the russians would be pissed if they cant buy good beer...

Isn't Germany a part of a EU? Also the small local brewerys are very good in Russia. Came and try some Russian beers!

ohh i did and it was good, but u cant get those in every kiosk around( i guess smaller towns still dont have so many supermarkets and a lot of markets and little kiosk that look like bunkers, but i wasnt in russia since 2008 so its just a guess).

and yes germany is part of the EU, but food exports arnt realy important.  putin knows how to hurts the smaller countrys that are against russia in europe and not hurting germany at the same time.  and he knows that he has to divide the EU, and hurting the little states while letting germany hurt itself wit the EU sanctions isnt  a bad tactic, and it works, germany is slowly turning against sanctions



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fighter on 07 August 2014
Sharu said:
fighter said:

those figures are not deaths but troops present :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_(World_War_II)

 

Total german military losses : 4.3 M to 5.5 - 75 - 80 % in the eastern front = 3.22 to 4.4 : 

Total Russian military losses : 8.7 M to 13.85 M 

1. How the sent troops shows you the 'bad k/d ratio'?
2. You also forgetting about German allies losses. Everybody forgets that USSR was fighting now only with German during WW2. It was also Italy, Spain, French etc etc, in fact USSR was in a war against the whole United Europe (except UK).

Is that what is told in russian history books ? the support to german troops was anecdotal

 

demonstration (same source) :

 

 

Total number of troops vs russia - german troops = total non-german troops vs russia

1941 

  • 3,767,000 troops - of which 3,767,000 were german = 0 non german troops vs russia

1943

  • 3,933,000 troops - of which 3,933,000 were german = 0 non german troops

1945

  • 1,960,000 troops - of which 1,960,000 were german = 0 non german troops
the "other" troops were so few they don't even appear in the mass


fighter on 07 August 2014
Sharu said:
fighter said:

those figures are not deaths but troops present :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_(World_War_II)

 

Total german military losses : 4.3 M to 5.5 - 75 - 80 % in the eastern front = 3.22 to 4.4 : 

Total Russian military losses : 8.7 M to 13.85 M 

1. How the sent troops shows you the 'bad k/d ratio'?
2. You also forgetting about German allies losses. Everybody forgets that USSR was fighting now only with German during WW2. It was also Italy, Spain, French etc etc, in fact USSR was in a war against the whole United Europe (except UK).

I should have left the title of the graphic to avoid confusion but it's pretty clear that it wasn't meant to illustrate a 3:1 ratio since it's actually 2:1



generic-user-1 on 07 August 2014
fighter said:
Sharu said:
fighter said:

those figures are not deaths but troops present :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_(World_War_II)

 

Total german military losses : 4.3 M to 5.5 - 75 - 80 % in the eastern front = 3.22 to 4.4 : 

Total Russian military losses : 8.7 M to 13.85 M 

1. How the sent troops shows you the 'bad k/d ratio'?
2. You also forgetting about German allies losses. Everybody forgets that USSR was fighting now only with German during WW2. It was also Italy, Spain, French etc etc, in fact USSR was in a war against the whole United Europe (except UK).

Is that what is told in russian history books ? the support to german troops was anecdotal

 

demonstration (same source) :

 

 

Total number of troops vs russia - german troops = total non-german troops vs russia

1941 

  • 3,767,000 troops - of which 3,767,000 were german = 0 non german troops vs russia

1943

  • 3,933,000 troops - of which 3,933,000 were german = 0 non german troops

1945

  • 1,960,000 troops - of which 1,960,000 were german = 0 non german troops
the "other" troops were so few they don't even appear in the mass

thats a bad source...



Sharu on 07 August 2014
fighter said:
Sharu said:
fighter said:

those figures are not deaths but troops present :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_(World_War_II)

Total german military losses : 4.3 M to 5.5 - 75 - 80 % in the eastern front = 3.22 to 4.4 : 

Total Russian military losses : 8.7 M to 13.85 M 

1. How the sent troops shows you the 'bad k/d ratio'?
2. You also forgetting about German allies losses. Everybody forgets that USSR was fighting now only with German during WW2. It was also Italy, Spain, French etc etc, in fact USSR was in a war against the whole United Europe (except UK).

Is that what is told in russian history books ? the support to german troops was anecdotal

demonstration (same source) :

Total number of troops vs russia - german troops = total non-german troops vs russia

1941 

  • 3,767,000 troops - of which 3,767,000 were german = 0 non german troops vs russia

1943

  • 3,933,000 troops - of which 3,933,000 were german = 0 non german troops

1945

  • 1,960,000 troops - of which 1,960,000 were german = 0 non german troops
the "other" troops were so few they don't even appear in the mass

The losses (killed) of German allies was 806 thousands. I wouldn't call it anecdotal. 



Ninsect on 07 August 2014

Have we really fallen to this level? Now arguing about WW2 losses...sigh



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