By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming Discussion - The Xbox One: A Lying Failure Machine

BMaker11 said:
d21lewis said:
Jim Sterling will turn on you. He will give your favorite game a shitty review. He will bad mouth your mother. And when he does, remember that he was once on your side.

That just means he's objective. Just because he speaks [facts] about the Xbone doesn't mean he'll automatically give Uncharted 4 an 11/10 review. I'd prefer it be that way and he airs out honest feelings, than to be biased. Like Polygon is with MS or IGN is with Sony. 

If he has a history of "telling it like it is" and gives a fair assessment to everyone, then that time he gives a bad review to my favorite game, I'll be more inclined to listen to why he gave it a bad review. As opposed to say, Polygon, giving Last of Us a 7.5 when just about every other publications gave it a 9 or higher and it got over 200 GOTY awards (they have since said it's "one of the best games of the last generation" when talking about the remaster. Kind of a low score for being amongst the best). I know they have an MS bias, so I ignore them until they build a decent track record of being unbiased. I won't ignore Jim if he gives a game I like a bad review. Because, contrary to what you've said, he's not "on my side". He's neutral. And he has sound and valid points for many positions he takes, whether they be positive or negative about Sony, Nintendo, or Microsoft.

Agreed.  But he has been that lone dissenting voice in the past.  He will be again.  Jim knows what to say to get us all riled up.  That's why many of us were glad when he left destructoid.  Sometimes we'll agree with him.  It's all good.



Around the Network
BMaker11 said:
Machiavellian said:
BMaker11 said:

I can agree with this...slightly. In the context of "their original vision", yes DRM and Kinect removal were impossible. But when people complained, they didn't say "this stuff is needed for this that and the other", they said "there's no way it can be removed. Period". As if the Xbox wouldn't turn on if Kinect were unplugged, as if the only way to play games would require check-ins and any alteration to that = no game playing.

People keep making this statement but MS as a company did not make this statement.  It was one guy named Larry Hryb who is not in a position of power to make such a statement.  Even when you watch the angry joe interview you can tell it was a knee jerk reaction to the question more than an informed response based on the direction MS was going to have to go.  If Don or Phil would have made those statements then it would have more weight.

Major Nelson is the Director of Programming for Microsoft Studios and Phil Harrison is Corporate VP of Microsoft Studios. I'd say they both hold some major weight. They both made "it is impossible" statements regarding the XBone. These guys aren't random "insiders" or low level employees. They are the higher ups with regard to Xbox. Are VP and Direct of Programming not "positions of power" to you? That's like saying the assistant coach and offensive coordinator have no authority on a football team since they aren't the head coach (Phil Spencer), and they have no clue what's going on with how the team operates.

Only the words of Spencer would be acceptable to you, is the vibe I'm getting. As if Larry and Phil [Harrison] are completely in the dark about Xbox, had no clue which direction Xbox was going, and their statements came completely out of the blue, as is Spencer isn't the one who directly supervises them and lets them know about what direction Xbox is going in.



Do you know what a program director is.  Basically its a marketing position.  Most would consider his postion as a community manager.  Only Larry made a statement that he would soon regret since it was a knee jerk reaction.  I am sure a lot of you have done something like that before or answered a question you did not fully know the correct answer.  Phil statements were right in line with the perception of how MS feels about Kinect and multiple people answered the same way when asked the same question so his words can be considered as a directive on Kinect.  We still do not know the exact commitment that MS has concerning Kinect but we do know its direction is now different.

@Bolded:  No what I am saying is that people F up.  It happens a lot but only people who want to confirm their opinion only take one statement as a communication or stance for a whole company.  Usually when something is a directive from a corporation, you will have confirming statements from all parties.  You will have official statements that have gone through a number of different channels for clarification.  When you only have one person making a statement that is not backed by others within the company then its mostly an opinion.  Sometimes its informed sometimes its not.  Are you telling me that people no matter the postion do not make incorrect statements or make a guess that can be wrong?  THis is my point.  I do not weigh the direction or stance of a company from one employee if not backed by a official statement or stance from the people who actually make the decisions.  I do not have an agenda to torch Sony, Nintendo or MS over tweet comments or one off comments made at trade shows or conferences.  I have no agenda to confirm why I like Sony more than MS or Nintendo.  I really just do not think that way

Maybe I have more experience in this situation.  I worked Tech Support, trade shows, conferences, training classes etc.  I know how it can be when asked questions you do not really know the answer or the corporate stance.  In my early days I use to give my educated guess and got burned a few times because it was wrong.  Now when I do not know the answer I pretty much just tell people I will find out.  Some people get mad with that answer expecting you to know everything but as some people have mentioned policy change a lot especially when competition is tight.



Machiavellian said:

Do you know what a program director is.  Basically its a marketing position.  Most would consider his postion as a community manager.  Only Larry made a statement that he would soon regret since it was a knee jerk reaction.  I am sure a lot of you have done something like that before or answered a question you did not fully know the correct answer.  Phil statements were right in line with the perception of how MS feels about Kinect and multiple people answered the same way when asked the same question so his words can be considered as a directive on Kinect.  We still do not know the exact commitment that MS has concerning Kinect but we do know its direction is now different.

@Bolded:  No what I am saying is that people F up.  It happens a lot but only people who want to confirm their opinion only take one statement as a communication or stance for a whole company.  Usually when something is a directive from a corporation, you will have confirming statements from all parties.  You will have official statements that have gone through a number of different channels for clarification.  When you only have one person making a statement that is not backed by others within the company then its mostly an opinion.  Sometimes its informed sometimes its not.  Are you telling me that people no matter the postion do not make incorrect statements or make a guess that can be wrong?  THis is my point.  I do not weigh the direction or stance of a company from one employee if not backed by a official statement or stance from the people who actually make the decisions.  I do not have an agenda to torch Sony, Nintendo or MS over tweet comments or one off comments made at trade shows or conferences.  I have no agenda to confirm why I like Sony more than MS or Nintendo.  I really just do not think that way

Maybe I have more experience in this situation.  I worked Tech Support, trade shows, conferences, training classes etc.  I know how it can be when asked questions you do not really know the answer or the corporate stance.  In my early days I use to give my educated guess and got burned a few times because it was wrong.  Now when I do not know the answer I pretty much just tell people I will find out.  Some people get mad with that answer expecting you to know everything but as some people have mentioned policy change a lot especially when competition is tight.

I really don't understand why you are so vehemently defending the XBox executives. Is it so hard, and so unbelievable to you, to actually entertain the notion that they were doing all that on purpose? That they purposely said everything they did, that they purposely tried to push an anti-gamer agenda which would only suit their bottom line?

Because, honestly, even if I were an XBox supporter, it would be easier for me to believe that, than to believe that they are a bunch of incompetent buffoons who were just speaking random bullshit.

I cannot believe that any of those people (Mattrick, Nelson/Hryb, Harrison, Spencer, Pennello etc.) managed to rise to the very top of the hierarchy of one of the best, largest, most profitable corporations in the entire world, while at the same time being complete and utter clueless idiots.

That for those 30 days in May-June of 2013, the biggest crunch time in the past decade, when they knew the entire global press will be focused on them, when they were preparing several years for the launch of what should have been the most profitable hardware product of Microsoft's history, which would bury Sony for good by taking over huge chunks of EU market, they were so stupid and moronic that they could not prepare themselves to answer several questions on the most basic specifications of their console.

The entire console was based on DRM, Kinect, always-on, sports, TV, exclusive games and original programming. That's not a lot of data for college educated high-level executives to remember.

Sure, I concede that it could have been embarassing had the press asked Hryb how many condensers or transistors the console has, had they asked whether it uses 54 or 45 Watts of electricity when in stand-by, or some extremely minute and unimportant detail. But to claim that they were unprepared to explain 5 basic concepts of their new console - that seems to me very unlikely.

So I don't accept those defences, I don't believe they were so vastly incompetent to answer a few questions about very major features of their new console. It is much more believable, and definitely closer to the truth, that they wer doing all that on purpose, hoping that their half-assed explanations will not garner any criticism and that the public will accept it and move on.



Aura7541 said:
Machiavellian said:

@ Bolded:  Could we say that Don Matt Acted arrogant instead of MS as a company.  I always like to separate people from a company because one bad apple is not always representive of the corporation.  How many times have people had a bad experience with one customer service rep, only to have a totally different experience with another.  It wasn't to long after that statement Don was headed to another job.  Do people believe something like that just happens out of the blue.

The PSN Hack is used because it showed Sony response time to something very critical and customer related.  Something that could have cause actual real problems if the information stolen led to cusumers credit cards being used illegally.  2 weeks to tell the public that your credit card could be compromised is nothing to dismiss and it has far more reaching effect than the cased used for MS.  In less than a week, MS used the information to make a drastic change in policy.  As huge as a company as MS, I can tell you thats fast.  You can bet there were meetings that last until the wee hours taking in information and deciding on a course of action.  At least one exec got thrown under the bus.

Like I said before. Similar, but not exactly identical. This is about how companies react to negative customer feedback towards a product that is about to release. Also, didn't credit card information actually got compromised on XBL despite MS's supposedly quicker reaction? In contrast, Sony might have taken longer, but no credit card information got compromised at all. Speed isn't everything if you do a slapdash job (in this different type of scenario, I should add).

No credit card information got compromised on XBL.  Xbox owners have been the victim of Phishing scans and things like that.

@Bolded:  2 weeks to tell the public this information.  Even thought credit card info was not taken what was taken was still bad.  All the data that you submit when you create a account was stolen.  That information can be used to access your accounts as well as create accounts in your name including credit cards and such.

In the 2 week time span, people could be creating accounts in your name and if you did not know this could happen you would not be vigilant.  

Anyway that's neither here or there.  The discussion was on reaction time and there are examples that go both ways for all the Console makers.  I just do not feel singling out one instance where it profits Sony is a good example of listening to consumers.  Could you find a situation where Sony does not profit from the response but was quick to listen and support customers.



Burek said:

I really don't understand why you are so vehemently defending the XBox executives. Is it so hard, and so unbelievable to you, to actually entertain the notion that they were doing all that on purpose? That they purposely said everything they did, that they purposely tried to push an anti-gamer agenda which would only suit their bottom line?

Vehemently??  Its an opinion.  Not sure where you get that I am defending MS execs.  I made a statement about what I consider as lying.  It doesnt matter if its Sony, MS or Nintendo.  This is where you are reading my words incorrectly.  You believe that I care about execs but I do not.  I care about having an informed opinion.

Because, honestly, even if I were an XBox supporter, it would be easier for me to believe that, than to believe that they are a bunch of incompetent buffoons who were just speaking random bullshit.

Thats the point, I am not an Xbox supporter.  I am a gamer.  Never tought of myself as Xbox, PS or Nintendo supporter.  I play games on all the systems.  I usually will purchase all the systems.  I do not admire Sony, MS or Nintendo because they are entities that want my money.  This is the difference in the way I think.  The only thing MS, Sony and Nintendo can do for me is give me a product that will give me enjoyment, support that product and do nothing to piss me off.  Thats about as much loyalty I have for any of these corporations.

I cannot believe that any of those people (Mattrick, Nelson/Hryb, Harrison, Spencer, Pennello etc.) managed to rise to the very top of the hierarchy of one of the best, largest, most profitable corporations in the entire world, while at the same time being complete and utter clueless idiots.

Who said they were.  If thats the conclusion you got from my post then I guess we see things different.  I made a comment that one person is used as a means to call an entire company as lying to consumers and for some reason you take it as all the execs you mentioned are complete utter clueless idiots.  Not sure how you came to such an opinion based on what I am discussing but its has nothing to do with the comments I made.

That for those 30 days in May-June of 2013, the biggest crunch time in the past decade, when they knew the entire global press will be focused on them, when they were preparing several years for the launch of what should have been the most profitable hardware product of Microsoft's history, which would bury Sony for good by taking over huge chunks of EU market, they were so stupid and moronic that they could not prepare themselves to answer several questions on the most basic specifications of their console.

Exactly where are you going with this.  Are we even talking about the same subject.  There was one comment from Larry Hryb that is now used as the mantra for MS being a lying company.  This is the point I am arguing about, not about MS screw ups concerning the original vision of the X1.  In discussions I like to stay on point not throw in a lot of other stuff that has no relevance on the topic being debated.

 As for the direction of the X1, is it really that crazy that MS screwed up.  Was it crazy that Sony did the same thing during the PS3 era.  Shit happens, companies screw up or visions are to aggressive.  Its not the screw ups that should concern most people its how the company handle the screw up.

The entire console was based on DRM, Kinect, always-on, sports, TV, exclusive games and original programming. That's not a lot of data for college educated high-level executives to remember.

This is not on the topic being discussed.  

Sure, I concede that it could have been embarassing had the press asked Hryb how many condensers or transistors the console has, had they asked whether it uses 54 or 45 Watts of electricity when in stand-by, or some extremely minute and unimportant detail. But to claim that they were unprepared to explain 5 basic concepts of their new console - that seems to me very unlikely.

@BOLDED: Nope, never said that.  You are adding words or an opinion to what I stated which is incorrect.  I stated that when asked about DRM, Larry stated it could not be turned off like a switch.  This is what we were discussing not 5 basics concepts of their console.  I thought we were talkign about MS lying to consumers.  There are 2 comments used to support this theory.  One line was Phil Harrision statement on Kinect, the other was Larry Hryb on DRM.  I was contesting the Larry Hryb DRM line as it only came from him and was not supported by anyone else at MS.  Phil statement I found was supported by more people at MS including Phil Spencer.

So I don't accept those defences, I don't believe they were so vastly incompetent to answer a few questions about very major features of their new console. It is much more believable, and definitely closer to the truth, that they wer doing all that on purpose, hoping that their half-assed explanations will not garner any criticism and that the public will accept it and move on.

I understand why you do not accept what I wrote because you and I are talking about something totally different.  You are talking about the whole scope of the X1 reveal and launch and I am talking about why MS is considered as lying to consumers.  Everything I wrote has to do with statements people made that MS was lying, nothing more.  





Around the Network

The title of this thread makes me laugh every time I see it.lol



Their 2013 E3 really messed them up. They arent really doing the right decisions until they reverse back their policies.. If they never even bothered doing it from the first place and not have kinect I think they would be par with the PS4.



The summary of XBox One pre-launch PR, and by extent of this topic :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kQFKtI6gn9Y



Captain_Tom said:
sundin13 said:
Fair enough...X1 did not accomplish its goal and failed in just about all of the ventures that they touted as revolutionary.


Fact.  People need to accept this.

Um......we do. Were happy with its new gaming focused direction.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

sales2099 said:
Captain_Tom said:
sundin13 said:
Fair enough...X1 did not accomplish its goal and failed in just about all of the ventures that they touted as revolutionary.


Fact.  People need to accept this.

Um......we do. Were happy with its new gaming focused direction.


So did you buy it at launch (Or close)?