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Forums - Politics - Israel is getting out of hand

Aura7541 on 21 July 2014

I rarely participate in political discussions, but what Israel is doing is inexcusable. I agree with Israel that the people of Hamas are dumb, at the same time, DO NOT bring civilians into this! Why would you kill innocent people who just want to live good lives, especially after all the **** their people had to go through the past 60 years?



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Proxy-Pie on 21 July 2014
fighter said:
MohammadBadir said:
Lawlight said:


More akin to the drop of water that tips the scale (or something along those lines). I don't think either are in the right but the only way this conflict will stop is if each party says "let's share this land 50/50".

Yeah, believe it or not a lot of Palestinians AND Israelis publicly supported this notion to end the on going war once and for all.

of course this could've been avoided if the Arabs agreed to split the land between them and the Jews in 1947, but you can't blame 'em for not wanting a minority (less than 8% of the citizens) to get 56% of the land.

The only part of your statement I disagree with. Why is it so hard to get the most basic of facts straight ?

I acknowledged that I made a mistake beforehand, I guess I should go ahead and edit that posts >.<



Ashadian on 21 July 2014
fighter said:
freedquaker said:
the2real4mafol said:

As you've probably heard, Gaza has been bombarded constantly for the last couple days by the Israeli armed forces. This is seemingly their response to the murder of 3 Israeli teenagers last week by Palestinians militants. Since then over 500 (most of whom innocent) Palestinians have been killed with many thousands made homeless. The majority killed by air strikes in Gaza had nothing to do with the initial attack on Israel and yet they are getting blown to pieces. This seems to be a common event in that country unfortunately and has been ever since the War of Independence in 1948. It just continues to amaze me that a place with such long lasting violence can carry on like this, especially when it's done by people in the world's most persecuted group in history. I think Israel has the right to exist but it shouldn't be getting away with the stuff it's been doing. The illegal settlements, the complete disregard of property rights of non-Jews, erecting huge walls to keep the Arabs from the outside, discrimination in their system and the as usual the bombings by both sides. This has been more or less the way since the fall of the Ottoman Empire not just since the foundation of Israel (partly thanks to my country, Britain).   

And yet those like myself who criticise any of it are almost immediately labelled anti-semites, it's just crazy. I don't hate anyone because of their believes, way of life etc. because i don't care about that. The Israelis and Palestinians need to give peace a chance as violence clearly has solved nothing but cause more blood lust from both sides. But when people keep supporting Zionism (really a Jewish form of Nationalism) that won't happen. It really is unfortunate that they can't live together as 2 peoples and work together or failing that the two state solution that has been proposed since the beginning. That can't even happen until the majority of people in Israel/ Palestine realise their is a problem here, rather than bury their head in the sand. War and violence can't carry on like this and it's good to see when many people around the world agree. 

~http://www.aljazeera.com/news/europe/2014/07/thousands-europe-rally-palestinians-2014719191611983924.html

It's amazing what happens when affairs are left to a handful of extremists on both sides rather than listening to the majority of moderates who likely have peace in there interests so they can live a decent life. 


I have to correct something. 

No Israeli teenagers were harmed in the last couple of weeks (unless something happened the last couple of days that I didn't hear). That is just not right. Israeli bombing started after 0 (ZERO) Israeli casualties, and Israeli killed about 150 people, 90% of whom civillian, and half of whom children until the first Israeli SOLDIER was killed. Since then, Israel killed 400 more people, again 90+% civillian and about 50% children, and less than a dozen Israelis (mostly military) were killed.

THAT IS THE CORRECT INFORMATION.

you missed the three teenagers that were abducted on June 12th


Except we don't know who killed those teenagers? Israel haven't produced one shred of evidence that it was Palestinians. But they knew they were dead a week before announcing anything to use propaganda to launch an assault on Gaza! 



PullusPardus on 21 July 2014

This have been going for ages, about 50 to 60 years, people just gave up and let them kill each other because both sides just simply don't want peace.



fighter on 21 July 2014
Ashadian said:
fighter said:

So it doesn't bother you that arab countries and the palestinian gvt do nothing for the palestinians ?

 

ok


There is a few myths that need clearing up!

Hamas doesn't have a factory that makes rockets. Israel control everything that comes into the region with their blockades. So where do these terrifying and deadly Hamas rockets come from? Israel frequently quote 1500+ rockets fired by Hamas every day. So where are these mass produced? Which convoy smuggles them in? By magic?

Or is it israeli made up bullshit! 

Building materials, medical supplies you name it is controlled be Israel.Even water is controlled by the zionists. Would you be willing to live like this or would you rebel?

through tunnels that are regularly dismantled by both egypt and israel (because palestinians do nothing about them)

http://www.businessinsider.com.au/israelis-attack-hamas-tunnels-in-gaza-2014-7

Hamas is a branch of the Muslim Brotherhood. They give money for rockets and propaganda

http://vimeo.com/67054759

 

"Building materials, medical supplies you name it is controlled be Israel. Even water is controlled by the zionists. Would you be willing to live like this or would you rebel?"

I would rebel by

- pushing the creation of a two state solution

- using the EU and US aid money wisely instead of making it Hamas-mafia-money

- using the Israeli judicial system the way it's intended

 

The issue is it's not a rebellion. Palestinians are merely pawns for the muslim brotherhood to use as leverage.



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fighter on 21 July 2014
Ashadian said:
fighter said:

you missed the three teenagers that were abducted on June 12th


Except we don't know who killed those teenagers? Israel haven't produced one shred of evidence that it was Palestinians. But they knew they were dead a week before announcing anything to use propaganda to launch an assault on Gaza! 


If Israel were to attack Gaza everytime a teenager is abducted nobody would support them.

 

Israel doesn't care about revenge. They just need to seal the tunnels and seize the rockets. Bombing the homes of Hamas commanders is a bonus.



fighter on 21 July 2014
Aura7541 said:
I rarely participate in political discussions, but what Israel is doing is inexcusable. I agree with Israel that the people of Hamas are dumb, at the same time, DO NOT bring civilians into this! Why would you kill innocent people who just want to live good lives, especially after all the **** their people had to go through the past 60 years?

How would you react if your country was constantly the target of rockets ?

 

honest question



Aura7541 on 21 July 2014
fighter said:
Aura7541 said:
I rarely participate in political discussions, but what Israel is doing is inexcusable. I agree with Israel that the people of Hamas are dumb, at the same time, DO NOT bring civilians into this! Why would you kill innocent people who just want to live good lives, especially after all the **** their people had to go through the past 60 years?

How would you react if your country was constantly the target of rockets ?

 

honest question

Target of rockets of a terrorist group that only represents a minority of a group of people. This is exactly why I rarely participate in political discussions!



Ashadian on 21 July 2014
JWeinCom said:
osed125 said:
DialgaMarine said:
All the Islamic states surrounding Israel want Israel dead. Plain and simple. Israel is defending its right to exist. This has been going since the days the country was originally founded. And don't try to play the "Palestineans were there first". There is archeological evidence, that dates back thousands of years, that proves that that was the Jews' holy land with virtually zero evidence of a Palestine. It's their land, and they have every right to do what they must to defend it and protect their civilians when they're threatened by terrorist.

Finally someone points this out. Palestine didn't get the land stolen from them, historically, it has belong to the jews more than the Palestines.

Historically?  Dafuq does that mean?  If there were people there a thousand years ago, and they leave, they can just come back whenever they want?  I'm sure the Palestinians who were ousted about 60 years ago would be interested in that policy.  So would the native Americans in the Americas.

I'm not saying Israel stole the land (they immigrated legally under the Ottoman empire, the British mandate, and later were given the land by the British who controlled it and uhhhh well it gets sticky after that) but the fact that Israel may have had a state there thousands of years ago has nothing to do with whats going on now.  


Yeah it's some bullocks called 'The Right to Return'. But if that was the case then wouldn't the American Indians have the same right???



fighter on 21 July 2014
Aura7541 said:
fighter said:
Aura7541 said:
I rarely participate in political discussions, but what Israel is doing is inexcusable. I agree with Israel that the people of Hamas are dumb, at the same time, DO NOT bring civilians into this! Why would you kill innocent people who just want to live good lives, especially after all the **** their people had to go through the past 60 years?

How would you react if your country was constantly the target of rockets ?

 

honest question

Target of rockets of a terrorist group that only represents a minority of a group of people. This is exactly why I rarely participate in political discussions!

thousands of rockets nonetheless

my question stands - how would you react ?

 

Since 2001, Palestinian militants have launched thousands of rocket and mortar attacks on Israel from the Gaza Strip as part of the continuing Arab–Israeli conflict. As of July 2014 the attacks have killed 28 people,[1] mostly civilians, and injured thousands, but their main effect is their creation of widespread psychological trauma and disruption of daily life among the Israeli populace.[2] Medical studies in Sderot, the Israeli city closest to the Gaza Strip, have documented a post-traumatic stress disorder incidence among young children of almost 50%, as well as high rates of depression and miscarriage.[3][4][5] A public opinion poll conducted in March 2013 found that most Palestinians do not support firing rockets at Israel from the Gaza Strip.[6]