just because i don't believe a god created this world and watches over us judging whether i'll spend an afterlife in heaven or hell doesn't mean the only alternative thought is we're a bunch of meaningless chemical reactions with predetermined results. 

The issue with this is that it makes a few contradictions. A common atheist argument against the existence of a god is that they generally follow the policy that in the absence of any additional evidence, the simplest explanation works i.e. The universe runs in a cause and effect, not a omniscient being created these laws of nature and ordained them. Free will is an exception to that since we cannot explain free will. It also opens other can of worms like do other beings have free will, how can we tell and what causes free will. The simplest explanation is that we don't have free will, but most cannot accept that as it does make them feel less important so they take the obtuse route and leave those questions unexplained. 

I wouldn't say that Christian philosophy is without contradiction but a lot of it can be attributed to selfishness and interpretation.

on the topic of the thread, I really don't like when "false" christians misinterpret the Bible to persecute certain group when that clearly contradicts the Bible. It misrepresents the Christian community and being a Christian in name-only doesn't absolve them from going to Hell.

maybe we should take religious labels (like christian) out of this conversation, because we really dont have to talk about that for this. i havent said anything about those, and its because its possible to have this conversation without distracting people with those kinds of terms. the only thing that needs to be talked about is a world with a creator and a world without a creator and what that means for the creation. we dont need to look at different religions to discuss this. 

anyway, if the universe is all there is, then how can we be governed by anything more than chemical reactions? where is this extra thing that supercedes what  the chemicals are making you do? (i hope i asked that question well enough. i feel like these are two very very important questions.) 

now this isnt to say that it means everything is meaningless. if we are governed by chemical reactions with predetermined results, that doesnt necessarily mean it has to be meaningless. people can find meaning in doing all sorts of things, they can create their own meaning.. but still, when it comes down to it, you really dont have any free will and you are at the mercy of whats going on inside you. the flip side of that is that YOU are eternal and you are actually able to make choices that arent contingent on what the atoms are making you do.

the fundation of science is the scientific method which states:

1. natural phenomenon  is observed
2. a hypothesis is developed to explain the phenomenon
3. the hypothesis is tested 
4. the results are analysed and used to modify the hypothesis as needed

one can create a theory with an overwhelming amount of support, but one valid piece of contrary evidence can strike it down. as such, science and scientific theories are an ever-evolving as new ideas and technologies allow us to create and test hypotheses in new and exciting ways. free will is not an exception to your explantation,.. free will is the contrary evidence that stikes down your hypothesis.

i don't know what or why life is.  i do know that what can be observed in humans and society shows that life is more than the sum of it's parts (a bunch of chemical reactions).  i do not see anything to support the hypothesis of a creator or heaven or hell and i don't believe the theories put forth by christians and the bible.   but to say the only alternative thought to the existance of a creator is "The universe runs in a cause and effect" is very,... unimaginative.

we've landed a man on the moon and split the atom but still haven't the slightest idea of what gravity is.  maybe this is unexceptable to you but not every question can be answered with the current evidence.  that is why we as human keep experimenting, and learning, and expanding our circle of influence.

the whole atheist = immoral thing is pretty common really.

i think those that derive their sense of morality from religious teachings in a book have a really hard time understanding the concept that morality can be derived from other sources.   it's kind of like a college educated person not understanding how a person can be incredible intelligent but not have gone to college.  just because college is the most popular way to achieve higher education doesn't mean it is the only way to learn.   just because religion is the most popular way to instill morals doen't mean it is the only way.

not all christians are like this by the way,..  in my experience those that enthusiastically think a lack of religion means a lack of morality are pretty childish people.   when you're a kid you obey rules because you fear the consequences.  when you grow up you gain a maturing and understanding that stealing hurts other people and that is wrong.  i don't need any laws to know that stealing, or murder, or rape are wrong.  the rules help when your young and perhaps don't really grasp how your actions affect other people but when you grow up and mature you do the right thing because it is the right thing. 

so next time someone questions you just asked them something like, "if rape was not illegal and carried no consequence would you rape someone?"  if they say no you've made your point.  a lot of times i've gotten the whole "you have no morals" thing the other person just really never put any thought into their own morality confusing the teachings of morality with the existance of morality.  if you help them understand the difference they will often times change their mind.  

and if that doesn't help change their mind,.. if they hold firm to the idea that morality is a set of rules and consequences rather than a personal understanding of right and wrong,..  then they just haven't matured themselves still living in the childish perspective of morality.

...or, if they actually say yes to the question about raping someone you can weather anything else they say knowing your a better person than them.