A Request for Christians

[AstroGamer]

kitler53 said:

AstroGamer said:

kitler53 said:

just because i don't believe a god created this world and watches over us judging whether i'll spend an afterlife in heaven or hell doesn't mean the only alternative thought is we're a bunch of meaningless chemical reactions with predetermined results. 

The issue with this is that it makes a few contradictions. A common atheist argument against the existence of a god is that they generally follow the policy that in the absence of any additional evidence, the simplest explanation works i.e. The universe runs in a cause and effect, not a omniscient being created these laws of nature and ordained them. Free will is an exception to that since we cannot explain free will. It also opens other can of worms like do other beings have free will, how can we tell and what causes free will. The simplest explanation is that we don't have free will, but most cannot accept that as it does make them feel less important so they take the obtuse route and leave those questions unexplained. 

I wouldn't say that Christian philosophy is without contradiction but a lot of it can be attributed to selfishness and interpretation.

on the topic of the thread, I really don't like when "false" christians misinterpret the Bible to persecute certain group when that clearly contradicts the Bible. It misrepresents the Christian community and being a Christian in name-only doesn't absolve them from going to Hell.

the fundation of science is the scientific method which states:

1. natural phenomenon  is observed
2. a hypothesis is developed to explain the phenomenon
3. the hypothesis is tested 
4. the results are analysed and used to modify the hypothesis as needed

one can create a theory with an overwhelming amount of support, but one valid piece of contrary evidence can strike it down. as such, science and scientific theories are an ever-evolving as new ideas and technologies allow us to create and test hypotheses in new and exciting ways. free will is not an exception to your explantation,.. free will is the contrary evidence that stikes down your hypothesis.

 

i don't know what or why life is.  i do know that what can be observed in humans and society shows that life is more than the sum of it's parts (a bunch of chemical reactions).  i do not see anything to support the hypothesis of a creator or heaven or hell and i don't believe the theories put forth by christians and the bible.   but to say the only alternative thought to the existance of a creator is "The universe runs in a cause and effect" is very,... unimaginative.

we've landed a man on the moon and split the atom but still haven't the slightest idea of what gravity is.  maybe this is unexceptable to you but not every question can be answered with the current evidence.  that is why we as human keep experimenting, and learning, and expanding our circle of influence.

I don't see how that contradicts what I was saying, as what I was saying assumes steps 1-3 were already done. I know theories and laws can be changed but philosophy is dependent on what you know now, not the discoveries of the future. Philosophy also changes with new evidence

The problem with free will is that one cannot exactly observe free will and therefore cannot state without a doubt free will exists like say gravity. Trying to perform experiments in the first place is extremely hard, requiring either time travel or memory loss. Even with memory loss, there have been recorded examples where patients with temporary short term memory loss repeat the same exact conversation with the person watching them, hours on end. We cannot definative say that this is product of free will or the natural response to the same inputs though logic assumes the latter as it is the simpler explanation. Believing in free will requires a belief in some sort of plane connected to our world that we cannot observe either in the terms of a mind or higher beings giving us the ability.

Also, I wasn't stating that the only philosophies were Christianity and Fundamental Materialism, but the latter is the one with the least assumptions without evidence where Christianity makes several assumptions.