thats a very good point, and i can see how uncertainty in neural activity can cause a sort of butterfly effect in everything that surrounds it. 

but this is an extremely fundamental concept (and it was only discovered recently!) that governs existance. quantum mechanics covers these ideas that, you never know where the electron is going to be, because everything has a wave associated with it and electrons have so little mass, that their wave characteristics are more apparent than something bigger than it. so this idea of uncertainty turns out to be something that is integral in how things behave, and therefore, you cannot predict everything thats going to happen for the exact reasons you just layed out. its impossible. this, however, does not mean that free will is possible, but i see how youre saying that it opens a door for free will to be in the discussion there. 

as for the points in your last two sentences..  God doesn't control everybody's actions. i know this is something that a lot of atheists or nonbelievers bring up, but i just think its a huge misconception. and the rock thats too heavy to lift i always have thought of that as a useless point. think about it, it defies logic. if God created logic, how is he just going to disobey that?

I find the fact that people make the correlation between not believing in God and having no morals very disturbing. It's just as ridiculous as stating that religious people act decently only because they fear divine punishment.

Morals come from your life experience, your parents, friends, important events and yes from religion too but religion isn't the sole provider of morals.

I guess you being surprised by his comments says more about you than him. Knowing someone for years and not knowing what kind of religious cook he is.

This is not an attack against you but I'm really surprised. I never made any friends that weren't on the same wavelength regarding important issues like these. I usually see within minutes if I should stay the fuck away from someone or not.

I guess he's not your friend anymore?

In retrospect, I guess he was never a friend.

the whole atheist = immoral thing is pretty common really.

i think those that derive their sense of morality from religious teachings in a book have a really hard time understanding the concept that morality can be derived from other sources.   it's kind of like a college educated person not understanding how a person can be incredible intelligent but not have gone to college.  just because college is the most popular way to achieve higher education doesn't mean it is the only way to learn.   just because religion is the most popular way to instill morals doen't mean it is the only way.

not all christians are like this by the way,..  in my experience those that enthusiastically think a lack of religion means a lack of morality are pretty childish people.   when you're a kid you obey rules because you fear the consequences.  when you grow up you gain a maturing and understanding that stealing hurts other people and that is wrong.  i don't need any laws to know that stealing, or murder, or rape are wrong.  the rules help when your young and perhaps don't really grasp how your actions affect other people but when you grow up and mature you do the right thing because it is the right thing. 

so next time someone questions you just asked them something like, "if rape was not illegal and carried no consequence would you rape someone?"  if they say no you've made your point.  a lot of times i've gotten the whole "you have no morals" thing the other person just really never put any thought into their own morality confusing the teachings of morality with the existance of morality.  if you help them understand the difference they will often times change their mind.  

and if that doesn't help change their mind,.. if they hold firm to the idea that morality is a set of rules and consequences rather than a personal understanding of right and wrong,..  then they just haven't matured themselves still living in the childish perspective of morality.

...or, if they actually say yes to the question about raping someone you can weather anything else they say knowing your a better person than them.

I hope some Christian calls me immoral some day. I hate morals.

..as is basically everything you've written about athiests in this thread.

the label "christian" not mean every christian has the exact same beliefs.   their are catholics, lutherans, methodists, baptists, and probably 100 other sects that all have varying views on the same core concept.   well, the same goes for atheists.  you're projecting a very extreemist, skinner-esque viewpoint onto atheists that does not suit all who wear that label.

just because i don't believe a god created this world and watches over us judging whether i'll spend an afterlife in heaven or hell doesn't mean the only alternative thought is we're a bunch of meaningless chemical reactions with predetermined results. 

If you want to be catty with a Christian, you can always point out that Noah's Ark was really just a story of global genocide. You might get various responses, "God works in mysterious ways." "We shouldn't question God." "I don't follow that half of the bible," or "It's his right to do what he wants." That's your sign to walk away.

maybe we should take religious labels (like christian) out of this conversation, because we really dont have to talk about that for this. i havent said anything about those, and its because its possible to have this conversation without distracting people with those kinds of terms. the only thing that needs to be talked about is a world with a creator and a world without a creator and what that means for the creation. we dont need to look at different religions to discuss this. 

anyway, if the universe is all there is, then how can we be governed by anything more than chemical reactions? where is this extra thing that supercedes what  the chemicals are making you do? (i hope i asked that question well enough. i feel like these are two very very important questions.) 

now this isnt to say that it means everything is meaningless. if we are governed by chemical reactions with predetermined results, that doesnt necessarily mean it has to be meaningless. people can find meaning in doing all sorts of things, they can create their own meaning.. but still, when it comes down to it, you really dont have any free will and you are at the mercy of whats going on inside you. the flip side of that is that YOU are eternal and you are actually able to make choices that arent contingent on what the atoms are making you do.

I was on holiday in California and went to Santa Monica when I was acosted by 2 girls who initially tried to catch my attention with optical illusions. Having had an education, I was able to tell the that both shapes were in fact the same size and it was their shape that made them appear to be different :p

They then moved onto my religion and I told them I had none. I wouldn't say I'm athiest, as I just plain don't know, so agnostic fits me better. But yeah, when they asked how I know whether I'm a good person, I said I use my moral compass, to which I was told, in the eyes of the lord, I had promoted myself to be my own god and I was going to spend all eternity burning in the pits of hell. (this was actually the language used)

They then proceeded to say it's not too late to repent and hop on their bandwagon and I can redeem myself.

Being English, I've never really had religion suggested to me beyond the odd Jehovas Witness calling at my door to share their word (completely harmless and can be a fun chat).

So yeah I've witnessed the extreme "you are the devil" stuff myself and it was really really surprising, I thought it was actually a negative stereotype of particularly Southern states, but it does seem there is still some really extremist religious views in place even in countries considered liberal.