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Forums - Gaming - Weekly global 21 June: XBOX ONE increase again

binary solo said:
ChudStudly said:

U

OttoniBastos said:
Shadow1980 said:
ChudStudly said:

Exactly. Been saying this for a long time. People think market contraction is bad thing when it's anything but. The console market is fine. It ain't going nowhere.

 Plus, people freaking out over sub100k sales in a consoles first summer cycle makes me wanna scream.

It's also worth pointing out that in launch-aligned terms, the PS4, XBO, and Wii U sold a combined 1,828,000 units during their respective first winter quarters (Q1 of this year for the PS4 & XBO, Q1 '13 for the Wii U). For the 360, PS3, and Wii, the total was 2,134,000 while for the PS2, Xbox, and GC it was 1,682,000. Not too shabby for the current generation considering the Wii was hot, hot, hot! The current quarter isn't looking too good compared to the others, however, but combined aligned first Q1+Q2 sales don't look too bad.

If you want to just go by non-aligned years, it favors the current generation even more. The PS2 and Dreamcast were the only sixth-gen systems on the market in the first half of 2001. The Dreamcast sold somewhere between 350k to 400k in the first quarter of that year while the PS2 pulled about 1028k according to the only source of Q1 '01 sales I could find. That's a total of around 1400k, give or take. Q2 was even worse, as they sold somewhere around 1100k to 1200k combined. The 360 was the only new seventh-gen system on the market for the first three quarters of 2006, yet it pulled 603k in Q1 2006 and 793k in Q2. Meanwhile, in Q1 of this year ninth-gen systems sold a combined 1839k, and as mentioned they appear to be on track to pull upwards of 1100k for Q2, putting the tally of ninth-gen systems sold in the U.S in the first half of 2014 at nearly 3 million.

In any case, uptake of new systems is at a higher rate than before, with record launches in Q4 last year and a strong Q1 this year. In fact, last time around uptake of new systems was incredibly slow except for the Wii. The 360's sluggish launch (607k in Q4 2005) plus the 1396k it sold in the first half of 2006 showed that there was a decent but not huge rush to buy a shiny new next-gen system. The PS3 and 360 sold a combined 2011k in the first half of 2007, further reinforcing that view. Had the Wii only pulled GameCube-level sales (which a lot of analysts considered a distinct possibility before the system launched), the first half of 2007 might have seen only 2600-2700k units sold. Of course, there are other confounding factors to take into consideration. There's games, pricing, release timing, buzz/marketing, system shortages, etc., which can all affect a system's performance quarter to quarter, month to month.

Yes, the current spring quarter is considerably down from the winter quarter, but not only is the spring quarter almost always the weakest for any system, when you put everything into a historical context and understand all the things that can influence sales (e.g., the current generation had a huge launch and thus the likelihood of some considerable front-loading, the PS4 was supply limited during Q1 of this year, the XBO was overpriced and had little to distinguish it from the PS4 besides an accessory few wanted, the XBO also had a value-priced bundle containing a game that had a lot of hype and excitement surrounding it, and many games both multiplat and exclusive have been pushed back to 2015), you'll see that current sales aren't anything to be worried about. Sales of "conventional" systems (i.e., the PS4 and XBO) are in fact quite strong compared to the sales of other such systems (i.e., everything except the Wii) in the last three generations before this one.

Someone tl;dr this please?!

You should read it, it's excellent.

But fine. Long story short; consoles are just fine, they ain't going anywhere. Stop worrying.

Not quite. There is one important bit of information people need to accept, and which you yourself have acknowledged: gen 8 will be a contraction from gen 7.

I think its important to recognise that we have 3 types of people here: optimists, pessimists and pollyannas.

The optimists recognise there will be a market contraction compared to gen 7, but they believe despite this gaming consoles have a long and bright future. This is you if I'm not mistaken.

The pessimists recognise there will be a market contraction compared to gen 7 and that this marks the beginning of the end of consoles as we know it, with one perhaps two generations to run. This is me.

The pollyannas believe gen 8 will outperform gen 7 in hardware sales (home consoles only of course, even the most head in the clouds pollyanna doesn't think handhelds have a hope of exceeding the handheld 7th gen).

I think the optimists and pessimists have a duty to resolve our differences, or get past our differences, and help these poor deluded souls by shining a light on the truth on which we do at least agree, and that is gen 8 home console sales will be smaller than gen 7; by quite a significant margin.


I hold you in the highest respect, but I don't agree with you; market contraction marks a return to what is generally considered the "normal" state of the console market i.e., a market without the gimmicky Wii fad. This is a GOOD thing. The 9th generation started off at an UNPRECEDENTED rate, now things at following their normal course. We're off to a good start. This fall and next year are gonna be HUGE. Consoles ain't going anywhere. Calm down and enjoy buddy :)



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jlmurph2 said:
Jay70sgamer said:
jlmurph2 said:
Jay70sgamer said:



Lol a fad is something that is hot for a moment and fades ...100,000,000 people is not a fad sorry any way you cut iton spin it so with your so called definition of fad I can call the ps2 a fad with the DVD player because Sony lost almost have there fan base from ps2 to ps3 (154,000,000 to "80,000,000) lol and you are wearing that ps3 and xbox360 outsold wii for 2 years like its a badge of honor what about the first 6 years lol and everyone knows nintendo stop supporting the wii in the last year in a half lol all consoles fade off the last couple of years lol nothing new or different for any console 

Which is exactly what happened to the Wii as seen by the last couple years and how the Wii U is selling. I dont care what anyone tells you, 4  million consoles sold in the first full year is not an achievement

You are forgetting this is not a sprint and but a race nobody knows how this generation is gonna play out so if playstation 4 does not sell more than the playstation3 that would be three straight generations off the playstation brand declining ..will I  be be able to say its a trend and that the playstaion brand is fading lol..people forget that each generation is different and that sometimes you win sometimes you don't lol it's as simple as that ...people forget nintendo has won 3 out of seven generations and has beat "every" console it's been against at least once(Atari,sega,Sony,xbox,Neo geo ,colecovison etc )that's a huge feat ...


PlayStation dropped gen over gen once not 2 times. While Nintendo dropped gen over gen every single generation until the Wii came. Tell me, if the Wii wasn't a fad then why didn't those people buy a Wii U? To go from 20 million in a year (2009) all the way down to 4 for the next generation is unheard of. It shows that the Wii was another popular trend that faded away like every trend does. 


Yea jlmurph I'm gonna have to say you are spot on with everything you said. Couldn't have said it better myself. That right there is a HUGE drop off and one that signals just how powerful the Wii fad was. Sure Nintendo gamers loved it and liked to brag that the Nintendo brand has never been stronger (partially true) but it was a synthetic high caused by the 'fad' that was the Wii. I knew WAY more people who had the Wii just for Wii sports and had no clue about Zelda or any other exclusive. Excluding bundled games what was the biggest selling Nintendo published game? I have no clue? So let's say Zelda sold 20 million (hypothetically since I have no clue) and the Wii sold 100 million consoles that means 80 million Wii's didn't play that game. And that was the case with about 80 million Wii's. So if 80 million consoles were probably casual gamers who really could care less in the long run.. THAT IS A FAD. The Wii was so trendy and the hype was outrageous at the time. You couldn't go anywhere without someone talking about the Wii. That hyped not only disappeared around Nintendo, but they have sank into a very deep and dark place. To sell 20 million Wii's in a year at it's peak and the Wii U just sold 4 million in a year (sure not peak) but what's that mean the peak will be? 6 million? Compared to the Wii's best.. The Wii WAS a fad. The Wii U is NOT a fad. Thus you are seeing these results. 



Everything under 100k is just sad. I know it's summer, but still... I remember when the 3DS was considered to be a "dead portable" it was selling like 70-90k every week (during the same period). The PS4, the most successful console of the eighth generation is now just a little above that...



Bet with Teeqoz for 2 weeks of avatar and sig control that Super Mario Odyssey would ship more than 7m on its first 2 months. The game shipped 9.07m, so I won

Chasesdaddy84 said:
jlmurph2 said:
Jay70sgamer said:

Which is exactly what happened to the Wii as seen by the last couple years and how the Wii U is selling. I dont care what anyone tells you, 4  million consoles sold in the first full year is not an achievement

You are forgetting this is not a sprint and but a race nobody knows how this generation is gonna play out so if playstation 4 does not sell more than the playstation3 that would be three straight generations off the playstation brand declining ..will I  be be able to say its a trend and that the playstaion brand is fading lol..people forget that each generation is different and that sometimes you win sometimes you don't lol it's as simple as that ...people forget nintendo has won 3 out of seven generations and has beat "every" console it's been against at least once(Atari,sega,Sony,xbox,Neo geo ,colecovison etc )that's a huge feat ...


PlayStation dropped gen over gen once not 2 times. While Nintendo dropped gen over gen every single generation until the Wii came. Tell me, if the Wii wasn't a fad then why didn't those people buy a Wii U? To go from 20 million in a year (2009) all the way down to 4 for the next generation is unheard of. It shows that the Wii was another popular trend that faded away like every trend does. 


Yea jlmurph I'm gonna have to say you are spot on with everything you said. Couldn't have said it better myself. That right there is a HUGE drop off and one that signals just how powerful the Wii fad was. Sure Nintendo gamers loved it and liked to brag that the Nintendo brand has never been stronger (partially true) but it was a synthetic high caused by the 'fad' that was the Wii. I knew WAY more people who had the Wii just for Wii sports and had no clue about Zelda or any other exclusive. Excluding bundled games what was the biggest selling Nintendo published game? I have no clue? So let's say Zelda sold 20 million (hypothetically since I have no clue) and the Wii sold 100 million consoles that means 80 million Wii's didn't play that game. And that was the case with about 80 million Wii's. So if 80 million consoles were probably casual gamers who really could care less in the long run.. THAT IS A FAD. The Wii was so trendy and the hype was outrageous at the time. You couldn't go anywhere without someone talking about the Wii. That hyped not only disappeared around Nintendo, but they have sank into a very deep and dark place. To sell 20 million Wii's in a year at it's peak and the Wii U just sold 4 million in a year (sure not peak) but what's that mean the peak will be? 6 million? Compared to the Wii's best.. The Wii WAS a fad. The Wii U is NOT a fad. Thus you are seeing these results. 


Man if your definition of fad goes through console selling 100 million and a top IP of it selling 20M being unbundled than all consoles (besides the dead ones) are fads because PS2 sold 160M and GTA sold 30M or less, the best exclusive sold less than 15M and most of Sony 1st party IPs sell less than 5M.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

DonFerrari said:
Chasesdaddy84 said:


Yea jlmurph I'm gonna have to say you are spot on with everything you said. Couldn't have said it better myself. That right there is a HUGE drop off and one that signals just how powerful the Wii fad was. Sure Nintendo gamers loved it and liked to brag that the Nintendo brand has never been stronger (partially true) but it was a synthetic high caused by the 'fad' that was the Wii. I knew WAY more people who had the Wii just for Wii sports and had no clue about Zelda or any other exclusive. Excluding bundled games what was the biggest selling Nintendo published game? I have no clue? So let's say Zelda sold 20 million (hypothetically since I have no clue) and the Wii sold 100 million consoles that means 80 million Wii's didn't play that game. And that was the case with about 80 million Wii's. So if 80 million consoles were probably casual gamers who really could care less in the long run.. THAT IS A FAD. The Wii was so trendy and the hype was outrageous at the time. You couldn't go anywhere without someone talking about the Wii. That hyped not only disappeared around Nintendo, but they have sank into a very deep and dark place. To sell 20 million Wii's in a year at it's peak and the Wii U just sold 4 million in a year (sure not peak) but what's that mean the peak will be? 6 million? Compared to the Wii's best.. The Wii WAS a fad. The Wii U is NOT a fad. Thus you are seeing these results. 


Man if your definition of fad goes through console selling 100 million and a top IP of it selling 20M being unbundled than all consoles (besides the dead ones) are fads because PS2 sold 160M and GTA sold 30M or less, the best exclusive sold less than 15M and most of Sony 1st party IPs sell less than 5M.


Yeah that wasn't a good example at all considering used games can't possibly be counted.



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jlmurph2 said:
DonFerrari said:
Chasesdaddy84 said:


Yea jlmurph I'm gonna have to say you are spot on with everything you said. Couldn't have said it better myself. That right there is a HUGE drop off and one that signals just how powerful the Wii fad was. Sure Nintendo gamers loved it and liked to brag that the Nintendo brand has never been stronger (partially true) but it was a synthetic high caused by the 'fad' that was the Wii. I knew WAY more people who had the Wii just for Wii sports and had no clue about Zelda or any other exclusive. Excluding bundled games what was the biggest selling Nintendo published game? I have no clue? So let's say Zelda sold 20 million (hypothetically since I have no clue) and the Wii sold 100 million consoles that means 80 million Wii's didn't play that game. And that was the case with about 80 million Wii's. So if 80 million consoles were probably casual gamers who really could care less in the long run.. THAT IS A FAD. The Wii was so trendy and the hype was outrageous at the time. You couldn't go anywhere without someone talking about the Wii. That hyped not only disappeared around Nintendo, but they have sank into a very deep and dark place. To sell 20 million Wii's in a year at it's peak and the Wii U just sold 4 million in a year (sure not peak) but what's that mean the peak will be? 6 million? Compared to the Wii's best.. The Wii WAS a fad. The Wii U is NOT a fad. Thus you are seeing these results. 


Man if your definition of fad goes through console selling 100 million and a top IP of it selling 20M being unbundled than all consoles (besides the dead ones) are fads because PS2 sold 160M and GTA sold 30M or less, the best exclusive sold less than 15M and most of Sony 1st party IPs sell less than 5M.


Yeah that wasn't a good example at all considering used games can't possibly be counted.

General SW sales should be considered to measure the sucess of a console, but saying a IP selling to less than 30% of the base make the console a fad is strange.

On the fad side I would say that taking out the heavily bundled SW on Wii (like WiiSports) it probably would already be 3rd in SW total sales with 100M base against 80M. But that have nothing to do with being fad just with the ratio of sw, and that was a strong suite of X360 and seems will be strong on X1 as well.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

Just as some people seem to think the reason for this generations contraction is the "fad" of the Wii (despite the fact the the growth of the 7th generation seems to match previous generations growth) wasn't the insane launch numbers of this generation a fad since we have never seen anything like it before?



DonFerrari said:
jlmurph2 said:


Yeah that wasn't a good example at all considering used games can't possibly be counted.

General SW sales should be considered to measure the sucess of a console, but saying a IP selling to less than 30% of the base make the console a fad is strange.

On the fad side I would say that taking out the heavily bundled SW on Wii (like WiiSports) it probably would already be 3rd in SW total sales with 100M base against 80M. But that have nothing to do with being fad just with the ratio of sw, and that was a strong suite of X360 and seems will be strong on X1 as well.

It does seem to be a recurring theme with all Xbox consoles to have good tie ratios.



jlmurph2 said:
DonFerrari said:
jlmurph2 said:


Yeah that wasn't a good example at all considering used games can't possibly be counted.

General SW sales should be considered to measure the sucess of a console, but saying a IP selling to less than 30% of the base make the console a fad is strange.

On the fad side I would say that taking out the heavily bundled SW on Wii (like WiiSports) it probably would already be 3rd in SW total sales with 100M base against 80M. But that have nothing to do with being fad just with the ratio of sw, and that was a strong suite of X360 and seems will be strong on X1 as well.

It does seem to be a recurring theme with all Xbox consoles to have good tie ratios.


I believe so... even tough a small base favours high tie ratio because the users are mostly hardcores, but shipping SW to MS consoles can be a good bussiness if you release a game that interest the base.



duduspace11 "Well, since we are estimating costs, Pokemon Red/Blue did cost Nintendo about $50m to make back in 1996"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=8808363

Mr Puggsly: "Hehe, I said good profit. You said big profit. Frankly, not losing money is what I meant by good. Don't get hung up on semantics"

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/post.php?id=9008994

Azzanation: "PS5 wouldn't sold out at launch without scalpers."

I dont think Wii was a so much as motion controls were a fad. Most dont really care about them nowadays so i cant see how that isnt true.