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Forums - Gaming Discussion - Why I don't see the PS4 and the X1 going below $300 price tag for a long time

I see the wii u going down to $199 soon but the other consoles won't for some time



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xbone will go to 300 dollars next year



Intrinsic said:

The APU is the most expensive thing on that board as far as sony is concerned. But these things doesn't really cost that much to actually make. Haven't you ever heard this saying about chip manufacturing? "The first chip costs $2B, every chip after that costs $10".

As it stands, sony is paying AMD way more than that chipset actually cost to manufacture, but thats necesary for a certain number of million chips. After that AMD will pass some of those savings over to sony. Thats usually how these things work.  So even if manufacturing processes haven't been improved, its possible for AMD to rediuce what sony pays them by $25.

And with MS going insane, sony weren't stupid for going insane and dropping the price like they did. If they didnt they would have completely lost last gen. And if MS drops price to remain competitive then thats not stupid either.There is really no resason not to. And if anything, with how quickly MS dropped the price of the XB1 (if we can actually call it a price drop), it just goes to show that MS is very ready to drop prices if they have to.

Actually these things do cost a lot to make ... Not only are the initial costs high but you have to account for the fact that you need to put a fab in full capacity as it will end up costing just as much if a fab isn't in full use. That statement only holds true for smaller chips like entry level GPUs or SoCs and such but with a fairly sizeable die like the PS4's APU I would expect it to be atleast $70 to manufacture. 

I highly doubt AMD are profiting a whole lot since they just ended up posting another loss recently. It's probably TSMC or globalfoundries that are demanding that much as they are the ones handling the expensive chip manufacturing. 

Microsoft are smarter than what you give them credit for ... Plus I still think Sony lost last gen as they had incurred a huge debt over time.



thismeintiel said:
If a long time is 2-3 years, sure, it'll be a long time. And in reality, Sony cost of manufacturing is probably going to go down quicker than MS.

While they will both benefit from AMD reducing the prices on their chip manufacturing, since MS needs far fewer chips because of lower sales, they will always have to pay a higher price per chip than Sony, even though MS is already using a cheaper GPU as their base. DDR3 probably isn't going to get much cheaper than it is, now. I've even heard some theorize that it may actually go up in price as more move towards GDDR5 and DDR4. Their largest savings will be if the ESRAM they are using drops in price. Of course, with so few using that design, I don't know how fast that will happen.

Sony, on the other hand, gambled on GDDR5 and it's paid off. As more graphics cards switch to that type of RAM, the prices will begin to plummet. Also, the reverse of MS's situation, because of much higher sales, and therefore more units needed, Sony will pay a much lower price per unit.

In the end, one will switch to $349 next year. Either Sony because manufacturing costs have dropped, and want to bring even more heat to MS. Or MS to try and stay competitive. In 2016/17, we will 100% see both consoles at $299. And once the PS4 reaches $299, look out.

I was expecting that we were going to keep the $300 and over for 5 years rather than 3. As for your statement that the cost manufacturing will go down faster for Sony rather than Microsoft, I don't believe that for the most part as they'll be using fab plants with similar manufacturing technologies. 

Just because Sony might get more leeway on the savings for manufacturing chips at a higher volume compared to Microsoft doesn't mean that it will end up being much since both of the volumes are in the millions of chips. I also don't see GDDR5 getting significant cost savings either because their will be no cost reduction benefits when moving to more advanced manufacturing technologies. 

Sony gambling on the GDDR5 definitely paid off but I still don't see much cost reduction in the future and the majority of the discreet GPUs sold also feature GDDR5 so I don't know you used that piece of information as a motivation for thinking that there would be a lower cost to manufacturing. 

Off-topic: The next generation may really be the last generation of consoles since moore's law will have died and therefore will give very little incentive to upgrade on newer iterations of consoles. 



fatslob-:O said:

Off-topic: The next generation may really be the last generation of consoles since moore's law will have died and therefore will give very little incentive to upgrade on newer iterations of consoles. 


While that might be true for silicon, there will be new materials to reboot it.



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HoloDust said:

While that might be true for silicon, there will be new materials to reboot it.

Like what ? Are you going to come here and say graphene ? I don't see any replacement for silicon and the laws of physics are eventually going to stop us from shrinking any further. What do you propose that we use for new scanner technologies ? 13.5nm EUVL has done nothing but act like vapourware.

Like Bob Colwell said, "It's not going to be physical limits that will end moore's law but it will be due to the economics of making cost effective technology."

Computational lithography is still too out of reach for us ... Having good material may be one thing but having no good scanner technologies will mean that you can't print extremely small, fine, and precise features of the circuits. 

Ohhh, I can see the awful repercussions that will come out of this whole mess. Moore's law may even stop at the 10nm node for all I know. 



fatslob-:O said:
HoloDust said:

While that might be true for silicon, there will be new materials to reboot it.

Like what ? Are you going to come here and say graphene ? I don't see any replacement for silicon and the laws of physics are eventually going to stop us from shrinking any further. What do you propose that we use for new scanner technologies ? 13.5nm EUVL has done nothing but act like vapourware.

Like Bob Colwell said, "It's not going to be physical limits that will end moore's law but it will be due to the economics of making cost effective technology."

Computational lithography is still too out of reach for us ... Having good material may be one thing but having no good scanner technologies will mean that you can't print extremely fine and precise features of the circuits. 

Ohhh, I can see the awful repercussions that will come out of this whole mess. Moore's law may even stop at the 10nm node for all I know. 


I'm not into the matter that much, but something disruptive like gallium-arsenide from POET Technologies. Or something different, who knows.

Here's a nice comment from the comment section of one of the articles dealing with 28nm wall:

"I was lucky enough to be at the Solid state conference in Philadelphia in 1966 and was in the audience where Dr More presented his paper defining Moore’s Law. A comment from the audience then was ” Nobody is going to tread those memory cores for less than 0.1Cents per bit. The law can not continue.” Dr Moore’s comment was: “Then we know one thing: Memories for computers will not be threaded ferrite cores in the future”. Dr More was right."

There will be something new, we just have to wait and see what will win.



Well if there is no price cut, I wont be buying either for a long time.



"I think it will be the HDS"-Me in regards to Nintendo's next handheld.

HoloDust said:

I'm not into the matter that much, but something disruptive like gallium-arsenide from POET Technologies. Or something different, who knows.

Here's a nice comment from the comment section of one of the articles dealing with 28nm wall:

"I was lucky enough to be at the Solid state conference in Philadelphia in 1966 and was in the audience where Dr More presented his paper defining Moore’s Law. A comment from the audience then was ” Nobody is going to tread those memory cores for less than 0.1Cents per bit. The law can not continue.” Dr Moore’s comment was: “Then we know one thing: Memories for computers will not be threaded ferrite cores in the future”. Dr More was right."

There will be something new, we just have to wait and see what will win.

III-V FinFETs may be promising but so are others like gate all around, quantum well FinFETs, and SOI FinFETs as well. 

There may be something new but I wish I could have that same kind of optimism as you do ... In fact I am envious of it. I don't believe anything will win due to the fact that we've almost come to a stand still and if 13.5nm EUVL does become a reality where do we go from there ? 

The belief that moore's law will continue is almost as strong as kids believing in tinker bell from neverland. LOL



I dont know much about specs and what not but I too have felt that once PS4/One reach $299 they will be content to keep them there for awhile. I could see both getting down to $299 by 2016 and remaining there until close to the end of the generation.



When the herd loses its way, the shepard must kill the bull that leads them astray.