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Forums - Sports Discussion - The Football Thread - 17/18 Season

Wyrdness on 09 April 2018
Ka-pi96 said:
Wyrdness said:
Relegation is a lot of money lost though when it comes to TV rights and such and to top it off a trophy maybe a rarity for teams but it's not guaranteed you'll return no matter how used to it you are look at Sunderland for reference they may actually drop into third tier and they've been up and down for years.

It's better to stay in tier 1 than win a cup and drop out because years later that cup win won't make up for anything if you can't make it back.

What if you end up getting relegated the next season anyway though? Then you're still down a division but without a trophy.

What if you don't win the trophy you decided to get relegated for? Then you're down a tier of football with out a trophy.

 

mZuzek said:
Wyrdness said:
Relegation is a lot of money lost though when it comes to TV rights and such and to top it off a trophy maybe a rarity for teams but it's not guaranteed you'll return no matter how used to it you are look at Sunderland for reference they may actually drop into third tier and they've been up and down for years.

It's better to stay in tier 1 than win a cup and drop out because years later that cup win won't make up for anything if you can't make it back.

Won't make up for anything, except add to a scarce trophy cabinet and potentially as one of the most important ones there? That sort of stuff is really important for a club, maybe short and mid term it might be a bad thing but when people look back at things 20 or 30 years from now, what will be remembered is the trophy and not how long the team spent in the first division or whatever.

I mean, this almost reads to me like some comments I saw after the Merseyside derby 0-0 this weekend about Liverpool being "foolish" to risk their top 4 chances in favour of the Champions League because "they'll never win it anyway". I don't really need to address that situation as I think it speaks for itself, and of course I do realize it's different to the Southampton scenario (us being currently safe in the top 4 instead of having to get into it as Saints need to get out of the relegation zone), but I think that gets a point across. Champions League football also makes a fuckton of difference money-wise, so for a team to miss out on it can be pretty bad, but ultimately it'd be nonsense to not go for the trophy at this stage.

What's important for a club is stability and yes your Liverpool comparison is miles away from Southamptons' situation, CL is a lot of money but it's not an actual league that maintains the stability of a club week in week out for every season, missing out on the CL may be a bitter blow but the effects are nowhere near that of relegation as dropping a tier in football hits club stability. You lose players, TV rights deals and the club becomes harder to invest in which can force a relegated club to fail to return further lowering the stability, it's all good having that new shiny trophy in an empty cabinet but if you end up doing a Sunderland or Portsmouth then it's not really worth it as not playing in the higher tier hurts far more then not winning a cup.



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Wyrdness on 09 April 2018
Ka-pi96 said:
Wyrdness said:

What if you don't win the trophy you decided to get relegated for? Then you're down a tier of football with out a trophy.

And what if you win the trophy and stay in the league? It's not as if going all out for the FA Cup is really going to damage their league chances all that much. It's just one game, the semi final. The final isn't until after the league has already finished so that won't interfere with trying to avoid relegation at all. And hey, maybe the knowledge that they'll soon be in a cup final could galvanise the players in their last couple games too and get them better results than they would have achieved otherwise.

They need to get to the final first and the topic was about some fan saying they'd rather win and get relegated because they're used to dropping and getting promoted but as Sunderland have shown that is no longer the case for teams, relegation battles are far more taxing than being in any other part of the said league.

Have you played any sport at highly competitive level? Going all out can hurt your performance else where we see it every season especially from teams in Europe, Tottenham are a recent example where they burnt themselves out before going into the clash against Juventus. This is a late season relegation battle if they lose or draw one game they're likely done.



KiigelHeart on 10 April 2018

Go all out to win FA Cup of course. Watching your team lift a throphy is a great feeling. Next season you support your team to lift the Championships throphy :)

If I was a Liverpool fan I'd want my team to give everything they got to win CL, fuck top 4 finish.



The Fury on 10 April 2018
drbunnig said:

Would you rather win the FA Cup and get relegated or stay up but go out of the FA Cup?

I only ask as I work with a Swansea fan and he'd take relegation and a trophy every day of the week. His reasoning being that he's used to going up and down the divisions every so often, but winning a trophy is a rarity (for many clubs at least).

FA Cup without a doubt. It will be our first (major) trophy since 76 which was the FA Cup. We don't win things and know we don't have the money or fanbase to compete with the top 6. We've done the relegation thing, we've done the bankrupt thing too. Relegation will just be a chance to regroup and come back up.



Hmm, pie.

Wyrdness on 10 April 2018
Ka-pi96 said:
Wyrdness said:

They need to get to the final first and the topic was about some fan saying they'd rather win and get relegated because they're used to dropping and getting promoted but as Sunderland have shown that is no longer the case for teams, relegation battles are far more taxing than being in any other part of the said league.

Have you played any sport at highly competitive level? Going all out can hurt your performance else where we see it every season especially from teams in Europe, Tottenham are a recent example where they burnt themselves out before going into the clash against Juventus. This is a late season relegation battle if they lose or draw one game they're likely done.

And what of Newcastle the year before? They came straight back up, one example of a team performing terribly and possibly getting relegated again doesn't discount all of those that go down but can dominate that league and come straight back up. It's not easy and it certainly won't always happen, but it's certainly a stronger possibility than back to back relegations still.

They literally just lost one and they aren't done yet. Will probably lose another one on Saturday too, and that probably won't be the end of them then either. One loss or draw isn't the end of the world just yet.

Except the are more than just one example the are many, Bolton, Portsmouth, Birmingham, Wigan, Blackburn, Charlton etc... Yeah they just lost one which is why one more is problematic especially if other results go against them.



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poklane on 10 April 2018

Later today we'll be able to talk about Fraudiola or make fun of Liverpool as a whole



LurkerJ on 10 April 2018
poklane said:
Later today we'll be able to talk about Fraudiola or make fun of Liverpool as a whole

Their performance during the entire first half against Man U was phenomenal, if Aguero was on the receiving end instead of Sterling, they would've won 100%. In other words, I wouldn't count them out just yet. In any case, it's probably the only interesting match left (quarter-final wise), so hopefully it lives up to the hype.



Wyrdness on 10 April 2018
LurkerJ said:
poklane said:
Later today we'll be able to talk about Fraudiola or make fun of Liverpool as a whole

Their performance during the entire first half against Man U was phenomenal, if Aguero was on the receiving end instead of Sterling, they would've won 100%. In other words, I wouldn't count them out just yet. In any case, it's probably the only interesting match left (quarter-final wise), so hopefully it lives up to the hype.

They have shown their weakness though and it's equivalent to having a glass jaw as once they hit with a good blow they're suddenly on the ropes and struggle to come back into the game, all of their defeats since Pep has taken over have been like this even last season. Unless Liverpool field a team of scarecrows or defend like  they're intoxicated all they have to do is not lose by 3 goal if they don't score, historically Liverpool have always performed better in Europe than other English teams I don't see them throwing this away.



LurkerJ on 10 April 2018
Wyrdness said:
LurkerJ said:

Their performance during the entire first half against Man U was phenomenal, if Aguero was on the receiving end instead of Sterling, they would've won 100%. In other words, I wouldn't count them out just yet. In any case, it's probably the only interesting match left (quarter-final wise), so hopefully it lives up to the hype.

They have shown their weakness though and it's equivalent to having a glass jaw as once they hit with a good blow they're suddenly on the ropes and struggle to come back into the game, all of their defeats since Pep has taken over have been like this even last season. Unless Liverpool field a team of scarecrows or defend like  they're intoxicated all they have to do is not lose by 3 goal if they don't score, historically Liverpool have always performed better in Europe than other English teams I don't see them throwing this away.

I don't see them throwing it away either (I would've if it was 2017, we were horrible ). I still want to see a good fight. 



drbunnig on 10 April 2018

Nerves have just kicked in. Guess I should be grateful that I was tired / busy all day at work so I haven't had time to think about the match. Get the away goal and we're good I think.



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