Norris2k said:
Nirvana_Nut85 said:
Norris2k said:
Nirvana_Nut85 said:
Design is irrelevant. Not only Apple but other companies have proven this when it comes to desgin. You do not need a dramatic overhaul of the design of a device for it to be successful.The Wii U is not the exact same design as the Wii. It is similar but there are differences (size, edges,etc).
Pricing is irrelevant. I have said it several times now. The gamepad, the gamepad, the gamepad. The console may have only cost in the $200's to make but the actual gamepad was a significant partof the cost. This was the first time Nintendo lost money for each console sold. It wasn't a huge leap over the previous gen, but a huge leap over the Wii in terms of power.
You stated the Wii U did not have any games. I disagreed and provided the fact that the Wii U had better games at launch. I'll use meta scores as an example. NSMBU 84, Nintendo Land 77, Zombi U 77 vs Killzone SF 73, Knack 54 vs Forza 5 80, DR3 78, Ryse 60. I'm not being biased. I prefer Sony over MS but had to admit that the Xbone had a better launch lineup than the PS4. Providing facts is not being biased. I also never said the Wii U was a success, it seems you like to put words in my mouth when your not able to properly address my counter argument :) If you recall my earlier statements, I included that marketing plays a huge factor in sales, which is why the Xboxne has sold well and PS4 is doing extremely well.
Wii U is a terrible name. If they had advertised properly, they may have been able to do better in sales whereas if the console was simply named Wii 2, it at least would have allowed the general consumer/casual to have a better example of determing Nintendo had a new console. As I've stated it would not had been a success story like the WIi but would have had better sales. News does matter, articles do matter especially when coming from major news networks. This easily creates confusion for the general masses. I also mentioned threads because I've read dozens where people have mentioned family or friends believing the Wii U was an add on. That proves quite a bit.
Your last statement was rendered inaccurate when you claimed "the clients do not care about the product". Everything you mentioned (Internet, ads, news) was executed opoorly by Nintendo which created mass confusion. What I stated was that even with the poor execution, if the console had simply been named Wii 2 it would have generated much higher sales. 12 million would have fallen in line with what the PS3 (12,295,797) had sold during the same time frame and ahead of the Xbox 360 (9,773,010). That is definately not unreasonable.
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You don't even care to read what I explain.
So, your position is that design, price, power and a strong launch (if better in term of score than a poor launch for competition that no one can forecast) are irrevelant. The poor ads, internet, and news are "mistakes", and not related to a weak, confusing and unappealing concept (compared to people moving a wiimote in family for the first time a few years before). Name matters so much, "Wii U" is extremely confusing. That's your position, I disagree, and I think your position makes no sense.
My position is that the pricing, design, power, game at launch (not good but proving the hardware capability, and giving immensely popular license like COD), fanbase, positive PR, and concept (a basic "back to plain gaming + social networks") would have made a Playstation 4 a success even as a Playstation U. And for the same reason, even a Wii 2 would have had a very similar fate.
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Excuse me? I've addressed each claim you've made and provided a well thought reason (and actually used examples instead of just OPINIONS) as to why it is false. Just because you cannot provide a better response to my statements does not mean you should make ignorant comments to try and detract from what I've stated.
I am failing to understand where you are coming up with the assumption that I believe "a strong launch is irrelevant". I never claimed a strong launch was irrelevent. Nowhere did I state that, please get your facts straight. I did say that the overall design of the console is irrelevant (Xbone sells well but it is hidious in terms of consumer electronics). I said that the power of the Wii U was irrelevant to the higher cost in comparison to tthe Wii launch price due to the manufacturing cost of the actual gamepad which contributed significantly to the total cost of the console. Nintendo was not going to release it for $250 and loose $100 per console. The don't have the spending money like Microsoft and do not take losses like Sony. Poor marketing + the name of the console contributed to poor sales. The majority seem to be in agreement. News articles, analysts have stated this but they all must be wrong and you must be right. Unfortunately it seems that your misconstruing your opinion as reality.
Yes all those things combined contribute to sales. However, Playstation Vita had all of the above and was coming off the success of the 80+ million sold PSP, yet it has failed to move systems in the way it's predecessor did. The PSVIta had much more positive media coverage than the Wii U. The relaity is, due to Nintendo's poor choice in naming and marketing, the console has hit the abysmal sales level. Most casual consumers do not realize there is a new Nintendo console and probably never will till the next generation unless Nintendo pulls a horshoe out of their ass. Playstation U would have been confusing to the general consumer if they advertised in the same manner that Nintendo did. It's that simple.
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I really fail to understand if you are mistaking it on purpose or not. Let's do that step by step.
Basically, from the very begining, you make each point irrevelant by example of products that suceed in most of the other points. I failed to explain, or you failed to understand, so let's explain one last time.
If a product like the XBone doesn't have a good design but have a very strong advertising campain, it doesn't prove the design is irrevelant. It proves a strong advertising campain is relevant. Other products will prove the design is relevant, other companies will be sucessfull by design, that's a plain fact. Steve Jobs was known to pay extreme attention to design, and provided a few examples of success. Can you just thing for a second and agree on that ? What you are saying, and repeating from the beginning is that if a product proves something is not mandatory, then this thing irrelevant. It makes absolutely no sense, you are confusing relevant and mandatory. You are saying it again "I did say that the overall design of the console is irrelevant (Xbone sells well but it is hidious in terms of consumer electronics).". So, even if I told you multiple time it's not about having everything right, you think you have a good example here, that you are making a good argument, and that I should be convinced. It's not the case, your logic is wrong. Something can be relevant, can matter, can have strong impact on sales, can really make a product new, and still not be mandatory for every products. Design does matter, so many people and companies spend a lot and believe in the impact of the design, it's a fact, the only way you can make design irrelevant is by having deep flaws in your logic. Your flaw is to make a confusion between mandatory and relevant.
Second thing, I'm not talking about a good design, but about a new design to help make it a new product. But you also made it irrelevant in a previous answer with exactly the same trick. Some products successful in multiple areas did prove it's not mandatory. So by an example you made it irrevelant, and that's again totally wrong. Nintendo proves it's relevant : except for the Wii U that is strongly similar to the Wii, they came with a totally new design every time. NES, Super NES, N64, Gamecube and Wii have totally different designs. Because, and again that's fact, a new design is relevant, why would Nintendo and so many companies fully change the design everytime if it was irelevant ? That does make sense, design change a lot, new product have new design, new design make a product new.
If you can agree you are making a strong logical mistake here, we can talk about price, launch, marketing, PR, naming, PS Vita failure, etc. If not, OK, I'm done.
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). About killing Wii early, Ninty consoles' system sellers are mainly their biggest 1st party games, so it's Ninty that decides when a console of its must die.
