The point is, MS couldn't prove Kinect's worth for hardcore gaming ever since it was released on 360. And they just realised they probably never will be able to do so. Kinect is always going to be that special controller used for dance/sports games, while doubling as an alternate voice activated remote control for your Xbox/TV.

People who don't care for another remote control or dance/sports games rightfully did not see any value in Kinect and MS has finally come to their senses in allowing these people to buy a cheaper Xbox without Kinect.

Kinect never had any place in hardcore gaming, and it probably never will.

True.

Removing Kinect is a really, really bad move for me, i think sales will drop even further now, until Halo 5. ppl who wanted a xbox one a 400 could already get one some time ago in Us/uk/De...WITH kinect, AND titanfall.

Now the xbox one is just a weak ps4... a bad copy/paste. It's a little sad.

No, you're wrong.

A teardown shows that PS4

• PS4: Total Console cost $339/ Total system cost (including controller) $357
• Reatils for $399 so makes a profit of $43 (before subtracting what the retailer takes)

Then for XB1

• XB1: Total console cost $331/ Total system cost (including kinect and controller) $388
• Retails for $499 so makes a profit of $112 (before retailer)

As you can see the XB1 does cost less to make than a PS4, however kinect is being sold at a premium (for whatever reason) but also gives MS a window to drop prices, thats why the totanfall bundle would not affect them. However, dropping to $399 while still making a profit means that MS will be making less money than sony is with the PS4.

As it stands now, sony is in a better position to cut the price of their PS4 than is MS. Though MS can easily match any price point sony goes to regardless. By this fall I would expect to see soft price drops for both consoles aka bundles and/or systems with bigger HDDs. Then proper $50-$100 price drops around E3 next year.

What's your source?

Cause IHS has PS4 at 381 and XB1 w/ Kinect at 471?

and the 39$ price tag for the "vision system" which I'm assuming is the Kinect is way too cheap as IHS had the kinect at 75$.

With that removed we're looking at 381 vs 396.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/teardown-reveals-xbox-one-costs-90-more-than-ps4-to-make/1100-6416404/

Here's my source. Sorry for not putting it up earlier. I have also seen the IHS numbers before but felt those were too high for somethings. Regardless of my numbers though, I probably hsould have also stated that the profits I put up doesn't mean thats exactly what they make, there is an overhead cost per item that goes to retailers and marketing too. If there is any good thing that can come out of the hardware in both consoles is that prices will drop a lot faster then ever. Prices for things like the HDD doesn't ever really drop though, you just end up geting larger HDD sizes for the same price.

IMHO they/MS should have just bundled Kinect Sports or whatever the game is with the XB1 and Kinnect and charged 499.99 instead of what they've done now. Also the Titanfall bundle @ 449.99.

Now they've basically conceded that their Kinnect as a gimmick. They are letting it sink now. They need to back peddle some more. I can't believe who is running the show over there. I mean choices are great, but don't MAKE choices that void your hardware base in half by the end of the year and then sever it completely in 2-3 years time. This is what will happen if they don't change course. Wait and see....

They're tring to please everyone, that's an awful idea.

I don't know what people expect of MS. In the time it took sony to sell 4ml consoles they have sold less than 1.5ml worldwide. And the time in question here is only 4 months.  We are also talking about the slow part of the year.

In just 4 months MS has seen that 4ml didn't care enough about kinect and went with a PS4. Do people want that number to become 10ml before MS reacts? If things continue at this rate, sony will have at least a 7ml console lead over MS by the end of the first year alone!!! I don't think people realize how bad that is for MS, for starters it would mean that any kinda exclusivity deal MS tries to strike that will keep content off the PS4 will cost them way more and in some cases even become impossible.

MS had around 10ml consoles or so (can't remember) lead over the PS3 and it took sony over 7yrs to claw off that lead. 7 YEARS!!!! I applaud MS for acting as fast as they are acting. Better now before it becomes too late.

No vision on the Xbox One? I counter this with the awesome and fun enjoyment that is being had playing Killer Instinct, only on Xbox One! :)

Now, to hope that Xbox "Two" will have Wii Motes..!