Einsam_Delphin said: curl-6 said: This "trend" isn't really a trend at all, because as I've said, each console selling less was not for the same continuous reasons each time. It's a not a trend, it's a serious of individual and different mistakes. Nope, it's a sales trend as the numbers prove! Regardless, the fact remains that MK, SSB, and so ons never sold enough consoles for said console to beat out it's predecessors. Now stop beating around the bush and answer the question! Why are these games going to sell enough consoles now when they never have before?

The numbers only prove they each made increasingly bad misakes, not that those mistakes are part of an overriding trend.

Wii U isn't the SNES. It isn't the N64. It isn't the GCN.

Wii U is tracking below GCN because by this point in its life GCN was $150 cheaper, and had Smash. Ergo, remove these obstacles and it has a chance. More expensive consoles naturally take longer to hit their stride.

curl-6 said: Einsam_Delphin said: curl-6 said: This "trend" isn't really a trend at all, because as I've said, each console selling less was not for the same continuous reasons each time. It's a not a trend, it's a serious of individual and different mistakes. Nope, it's a sales trend as the numbers prove! Regardless, the fact remains that MK, SSB, and so ons never sold enough consoles for said console to beat out it's predecessors. Now stop beating around the bush and answer the question! Why are these games going to sell enough consoles now when they never have before? The numbers only prove they each made increasingly bad misakes, not that those mistakes are part of an overriding trend. Wii U isn't the SNES. It isn't the N64. It isn't the GCN. Wii U is tracking below GCN because by this point in its life GCN was $150 cheaper, and had Smash. Ergo, remove these obstacles and it has a chance. More expensive consoles naturally take longer to hit their stride.

Welp since Nintendo can't drop the Wii U down to $100 anytime soon, that should confirm to you that there is no chance, based off your logic anyway. The Wii U has been selling worse than GCN all this time, so that means even if it started selling on par right now, it still wouldn't beat the GCN out even by the end of it's lifetime, assuming Wii U stays on the market the same amount of time. It'll be far too late by the time the Wii U can hit $100. Besides, I'll bet the GCN reached $100 before the N64 did, and look how well that worked out for it.

Also, the SNES wasn't the NES, the N64 wasn't the SNES, and so ons, so what's your point here? Nintendo games are still nintendo games regardless of the platform they're on, and those Nintendo games haven't ever been able to move enough consoles to outsell their predecessors, so for like the 4th time, why would they now? You say the Wii U isn't beating the GCN because it lacks Smash, but why then could the GCN not beat the N64 once it got Smash, or the N64 beating the SNES who never even had Smash? Same applies to Mario, Zelda, and all them other franchises.

Einsam_Delphin said: Welp since Nintendo can't drop the Wii U down to $100 anytime soon, that should confirm to you that there is no chance, based off your logic anyway. The Wii U has been selling worse than GCN all this time, so that means even if it started selling on par right now, it still wouldn't beat the GCN out even by the end of it's lifetime, assuming Wii U stays on the market the same amount of time. It'll be far too late by the time the Wii U can hit $100. Besides, I'll bet the GCN reached $100 before the N64 did, and look how well that worked out for it. Also, the SNES wasn't the NES, the N64 wasn't the SNES, and so ons, so what's your point here? Nintendo games are still nintendo games regardless of the platform they're on, and those Nintendo games haven't ever been able to move enough consoles to outsell their predecessors, so for like the 4th time, why would they now? You say the Wii U isn't beating the GCN because it lacks Smash, but why then could the GCN not beat the N64 once it got Smash, or the N64 beating the SNES who never even had Smash? Same applies to Mario, Zelda, and all them other franchises.

Comparing Wii U to prior systems as an example that "this won't help because it didn't a decade ago" is pointless because circumstances were so different.

curl-6 said: Einsam_Delphin said: Welp since Nintendo can't drop the Wii U down to $100 anytime soon, that should confirm to you that there is no chance, based off your logic anyway. The Wii U has been selling worse than GCN all this time, so that means even if it started selling on par right now, it still wouldn't beat the GCN out even by the end of it's lifetime, assuming Wii U stays on the market the same amount of time. It'll be far too late by the time the Wii U can hit $100. Besides, I'll bet the GCN reached $100 before the N64 did, and look how well that worked out for it. Also, the SNES wasn't the NES, the N64 wasn't the SNES, and so ons, so what's your point here? Nintendo games are still nintendo games regardless of the platform they're on, and those Nintendo games haven't ever been able to move enough consoles to outsell their predecessors, so for like the 4th time, why would they now? You say the Wii U isn't beating the GCN because it lacks Smash, but why then could the GCN not beat the N64 once it got Smash, or the N64 beating the SNES who never even had Smash? Same applies to Mario, Zelda, and all them other franchises. Comparing Wii U to prior systems as an example that "this won't help because it didn't a decade ago" is pointless because circumstances were so different.

Then enlighten me as to what these differences are and how they'll allow Smash, Kart, price cuts, etc. on Wii U to do what they have never done before.

Einsam_Delphin said: curl-6 said: Einsam_Delphin said: Welp since Nintendo can't drop the Wii U down to $100 anytime soon, that should confirm to you that there is no chance, based off your logic anyway. The Wii U has been selling worse than GCN all this time, so that means even if it started selling on par right now, it still wouldn't beat the GCN out even by the end of it's lifetime, assuming Wii U stays on the market the same amount of time. It'll be far too late by the time the Wii U can hit $100. Besides, I'll bet the GCN reached $100 before the N64 did, and look how well that worked out for it. Also, the SNES wasn't the NES, the N64 wasn't the SNES, and so ons, so what's your point here? Nintendo games are still nintendo games regardless of the platform they're on, and those Nintendo games haven't ever been able to move enough consoles to outsell their predecessors, so for like the 4th time, why would they now? You say the Wii U isn't beating the GCN because it lacks Smash, but why then could the GCN not beat the N64 once it got Smash, or the N64 beating the SNES who never even had Smash? Same applies to Mario, Zelda, and all them other franchises. Comparing Wii U to prior systems as an example that "this won't help because it didn't a decade ago" is pointless because circumstances were so different. Then enlighten me as to what these differences are and how they'll allow Smash, Kart, price cuts, etc. on Wii U to do what they have never done before.

Price for a start; price cuts didn't propel prior systems much cos they were never too expensive in the first place. Wii U is.

Wii U is just a dud. Price cuts and Mario Kart won't "save" it, all they'll do is the same thing that happened with the GameCube -- a few weeks/months of a surge followed by a return to mediocre sales.

There's not much Nintendo can do about this now unless they have some kind of new franchise breathe new life into the platform, but even that, if they don't have that already well into development, it would likely be at least until 2016 before such a game could be made ready, and there's really no point by that time.

How many brands that really popularized themselves from the 80s are still massively relevant today? It's a tough task, I think Nintendo has just become too far outdated and too far out of touch with the modern game audience. Wii was just a one shot surge that really masked what was a 15-year decline for them in the home console business. 

curl-6 said: Einsam_Delphin said: curl-6 said: Einsam_Delphin said: Welp since Nintendo can't drop the Wii U down to $100 anytime soon, that should confirm to you that there is no chance, based off your logic anyway. The Wii U has been selling worse than GCN all this time, so that means even if it started selling on par right now, it still wouldn't beat the GCN out even by the end of it's lifetime, assuming Wii U stays on the market the same amount of time. It'll be far too late by the time the Wii U can hit $100. Besides, I'll bet the GCN reached $100 before the N64 did, and look how well that worked out for it. Also, the SNES wasn't the NES, the N64 wasn't the SNES, and so ons, so what's your point here? Nintendo games are still nintendo games regardless of the platform they're on, and those Nintendo games haven't ever been able to move enough consoles to outsell their predecessors, so for like the 4th time, why would they now? You say the Wii U isn't beating the GCN because it lacks Smash, but why then could the GCN not beat the N64 once it got Smash, or the N64 beating the SNES who never even had Smash? Same applies to Mario, Zelda, and all them other franchises. Comparing Wii U to prior systems as an example that "this won't help because it didn't a decade ago" is pointless because circumstances were so different. Then enlighten me as to what these differences are and how they'll allow Smash, Kart, price cuts, etc. on Wii U to do what they have never done before. Price for a start; price cuts didn't propel prior systems much cos they were never too expensive in the first place. Wii U is.

Is that it? The only difference is the mildly higher price? That doesn't even prove that price cuts would make a difference now, unless you think they should have released the GCN at $300 just so they could do more price cuts lol.

Einsam_Delphin said: Is that it? The only difference is the mildly higher price? That doesn't even prove that price cuts would make a difference now, unless you think they should have released the GCN at $300 just so they could do more price cuts lol.

$200-$300 is not a "mild" difference. It's critical; one's a casual price pont, the other is not.

Prior consoles also never had Wii U's lack of a killer app.

curl-6 said: Einsam_Delphin said: Is that it? The only difference is the mildly higher price? That doesn't even prove that price cuts would make a difference now, unless you think they should have released the GCN at $300 just so they could do more price cuts lol. $200-$300 is not a "mild" difference. It's critical; one's a casual price pont, the other is not. Prior consoles also never had Wii U's lack of a killer app.

Kinda revisionist history here. I was around for the GameCube era, I recall a lot of "you can't judge the GameCube yet! Mario and Zelda haven't even be released yet!" going on for the first year or so before that dream died. The "it doesn't have its killer app yet" excuse has been done to death, the Wii U has a better library than either the PS4 or X1 ... there's just no interest in this product. 

Nintendo just doesn't have it anymore in the console business anyway. Fundamentally I think it's almost like they are incapable of making a console without making 3-4 critical mistakes in its design every time. 

They have nothing to be ashamed of ... being the console business for as long as they have would be like being in any other industry for like 50+ years. They've had a good run, I just think the console business has passed them by. 

Soundwave said: Kinda revisionist history here. I was around for the GameCube era, I recall a lot of "you can't judge the GameCube yet! Mario and Zelda haven't even be released yet!" going on for the first year or so before that dream died. The "it doesn't have its killer app yet" excuse has been done to death, the Wii U has a better library than either the PS4 or X1 ... there's just no interest in this product.  Nintendo just doesn't have it anymore in the console business anyway. Fundamentally I think it's almost like they are incapable of making a console without making 3-4 critical mistakes in its design every time.

I was there too. GCN fucked up Mario and Zelda, that's why they didn't sell the system. Wii U may yet give gamers they Zelda they actually want.