Einsam_Delphin said: curl-6 said: What's the better option at this point, 3DS benefiting, or Nintendo saving their bleeding home console division? Super Smash Bros., be it exclusive or not, wouldn't save the Wii U and you know it!

Not all on its own, but it would help. Combined with Mario Kart, a more casula price point, and an epic Twilight-Princess themed HD Zelda, and the system could at least pass Gamecube and Original Xbox numbers.

curl-6 said: Einsam_Delphin said: curl-6 said: What's the better option at this point, 3DS benefiting, or Nintendo saving their bleeding home console division? Super Smash Bros., be it exclusive or not, wouldn't save the Wii U and you know it! Not all on its own, but it would help. Combined with Mario Kart, a more casula price point, and an epic Twilight-Princess themed HD Zelda, and the system could at least pass Gamecube and Original Xbox numbers.

To break the ongoing trend of the latest Nintendo home console selling worse than all previous Nintendo consoles, it's gonna take more than just the usual things that happen during a console cycle (more games, price cuts, etc.), that's what the Wii has shown with it's motion controls and Wii Sports/Fit/etc breaking away it from the norm.

Einsam_Delphin said: To break the ongoing trend of the latest Nintendo home console selling worse than all previous Nintendo consoles, it's gonna take more than just the usual things that happen during a console cycle (more games, price cuts, etc.), that's what the Wii has shown with it's motion controls and Wii Sports/Fit/etc breaking away it from the norm.

Looking as it as one overriding decline is a mistake, because it doesn't happen for the same reason each time. Wii U's a decline for a different reason than the N64, for instance. 

It can broken rather easily if they started making smarter choices with their software and overall management. A $200/$250 Wii U with Kart and Smash would sell great over the holiday season with the right push, a dark HD Zelda would hook the hardcore, etc.

Einsam_Delphin said: curl-6 said: Zero999 said: curl-6 said: 3DS is doing fine, it doesn't need help. Wii U on the other hand is in desperate need. try cleaning your eyes because I didn't say 3ds needs help. I said 3ds will BENEFIT from smash bros, just like any console. the series will only grow by reaching the portables, just like mario kart did. What's the better option at this point, 3DS benefiting, or Nintendo saving their bleeding home console division? Super Smash Bros., be it exclusive or not, wouldn't save the Wii U and you know it!

thank you at least someone gets it. Smash Bros. aint big enough to save anyone. IT sold as well as it did on Wii because people were already buying the WIi. Didnt do much to save GC.

curl-6 said: Einsam_Delphin said: To break the ongoing trend of the latest Nintendo home console selling worse than all previous Nintendo consoles, it's gonna take more than just the usual things that happen during a console cycle (more games, price cuts, etc.), that's what the Wii has shown with it's motion controls and Wii Sports/Fit/etc breaking away it from the norm. Looking as it as one overriding decline is a mistake, because it doesn't happen for the same reason each time. Wii U's a decline for a different reason than the N64, for instance.  It can broken rather easily if they started making smarter choices with their software and overall management. A $200/$250 Wii U with Kart and Smash would sell great over the holiday season with the right push, a dark HD Zelda would hook the hardcore, etc.

I don't disagree that there are some different reasons for each systems decline, but what I'm getting at is how Mario Kart, Smash Bros., Zelda, etc., along with price cuts, remodels, and so ons never helped any other system outsell it's predecessor, and there's evidence that shows this'll be the case again with Wii U. We've already had SM3DW + other games + price cut + bundles + advertising + holidays, yet Wii U is still selling worse than Gamecube. While it's still not 100% impossible for MK8 n company to cause a turnaround, it's just really not likely unfortunately.

Einsam_Delphin said: curl-6 said: Einsam_Delphin said: To break the ongoing trend of the latest Nintendo home console selling worse than all previous Nintendo consoles, it's gonna take more than just the usual things that happen during a console cycle (more games, price cuts, etc.), that's what the Wii has shown with it's motion controls and Wii Sports/Fit/etc breaking away it from the norm. Looking as it as one overriding decline is a mistake, because it doesn't happen for the same reason each time. Wii U's a decline for a different reason than the N64, for instance.  It can broken rather easily if they started making smarter choices with their software and overall management. A $200/$250 Wii U with Kart and Smash would sell great over the holiday season with the right push, a dark HD Zelda would hook the hardcore, etc. I don't disagree that there are some different reasons for each systems decline, but what I'm getting at is how Mario Kart, Smash Bros., Zelda, etc., along with price cuts, remodels, and so ons never helped any other system outsell it's predecessor, and there's evidence that shows this'll be the case again with Wii U. We've already had SM3DW + other games + price cut + bundles + advertising + holidays, yet Wii U is still selling worse than Gamecube. While it's still not 100% impossible for MK8 n company to cause a turnaround, it's just really not likely unfortunately.

Things turning out differently on different consoles, in different circumstances, don't prove it won't work on Wii U.

Wii U is still more expensive now than the Gamecube was at launch, and lacks Smash Bros which GCN had by this point in its life. And what "advertising"? It's all either awful or non-existent.

curl-6 said: Michael-5 said: curl-6 said: You're missing the point. Wii and DS were different enough not to compete. There was no Mario Galaxy Portable or Smash Bros Brawl DS. The Wiimote was a huge differentiator. 3DS and Wii U are too similar: 3D Land - 3D World, Smash Bros for both, etc. No Wiimote type hook to separate Wii U. You're missing the point, 3DS and WiiU are no more alike then Wii & DS. Wii was popular largely because of Wii Sports, Mario Kart, Wii Fit & New Super Mario Bros. If you look up Wii games, these are the only franchises to break 20 million. 3DS, like the DS, has Mario Kart and New Super Mario Bros. The affect of 3DS sales on the WiiU is the same as DS sales on the Wii. People bought the DS for Mario Kart, Pokemon, New Super Mario Bros, and Brain Age. 3DS has all that too. Yes okay 3DS is getting Smash Bros, but just like how Mario Kart DS didn't affect Wii sales, neither will Smash Bros 3DS. It's a completely different market for handheld gamers then console games. I for instance will never buy a Mario Kart of Smash Bros on a handheld because I don't play alone or online. The Wiimote alone made Wii massively unlike DS. And there were no Wii Sports, Wii Fit, Mario Galaxy, Smash Bros, or Twilight Princess on DS. Mario Kart DS and Wii were different games; Smash on 3DS/Wii U is two versions of the same game.

So then how does the Wiimote on the WiiU not make the WiiU massively unlike the 3DS? There is no Wii Sports, Wind Waker, Wii Fit, Wii Party, or NintendoLand on the 3DS.

Mario Galaxy is a 3D Mario Platformer, and often regarded as the spiritual successor to Super Mario 64. So it and DS are similar enough.

Same goes with Mario Kart, why buy a Wii when you can get a near identical experience on the DS? Heck the DS version was better. Remember Smash Bros for 3DS/WiiU are different games, with potentially different fighters.

oniyide said: Ka-pi96 said: Some good points. Wii U really does need more games that just aren't possible on the 3ds. that shipped saled when Ninty decided to go with the tablet controller. THey can either bring motion back to the forefront, thats not gonna happen. OR they can just make a bunch of stuff like X with crap yourself visuals that cant be done on 3ds and that hasnt been Ninty's style for a while.

Metroid Prime, Wii Sports, Zelda using the Wiimote (like SS), and Pikmin 3 are great games to differentiate WiiU from 3DS.

However I would appreciate high graphc games like X, Gamecube did get RE4, there's always hope.

Michael-5 said: So then how does the Wiimote on the WiiU not make the WiiU massively unlike the 3DS? There is no Wii Sports, Wind Waker, Wii Fit, Wii Party, or NintendoLand on the 3DS. Mario Galaxy is a 3D Mario Platformer, and often regarded as the spiritual successor to Super Mario 64. So it and DS are similar enough.

Because the Wiimote was the primary focus of the Wii, but just a secondary peripheral for Wii U.

A port of a N64 game is not a substitute for a brand new 7th gen Mario far beyond the capabilities of the DS.

curl-6 said: Einsam_Delphin said: curl-6 said: Einsam_Delphin said: I don't disagree that there are some different reasons for each systems decline, but what I'm getting at is how Mario Kart, Smash Bros., Zelda, etc., along with price cuts, remodels, and so ons never helped any other system outsell it's predecessor, and there's evidence that shows this'll be the case again with Wii U. We've already had SM3DW + other games + price cut + bundles + advertising + holidays, yet Wii U is still selling worse than Gamecube. While it's still not 100% impossible for MK8 n company to cause a turnaround, it's just really not likely unfortunately. Things turning out differently on different consoles, in different circumstances, don't prove it won't work on Wii U. Wii U is still more expensive now than the Gamecube was at launch, and lacks Smash Bros which GCN had by this point in its life. And what "advertising"? It's all either awful or non-existent.

Not sure what you mean here. Mario World was on SNES, SNES still sold less than NES. Mario64 was on N64, N64 still sold less than SNES. Sunshine was on GCN, GCN still sold less than N64. SM3DW is on Wii U, Wii U still selling less than GCN. What's so different!?

I didn't see em myself, but I heard they had an advertising campaign going on during the holidays last year. Regardless, my point remains that the Wii U has already seen a wave of potential sales boosters that previous consoles have also seen, and like them it gained no momentum in terms of outselling it's predecessors. Why would Mario kart and smash bros. and price cuts n stuff work now all of a sudden when they never ever have before?