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Forums - Politics - 19F – The Night Venezuela Finally Imploded

osed125 said:
fighter said:
osed125 said:
fighter said:
osed125 said:

So the government killing civilians is democratic?

That's what you said also last time and thank go it ended up being filmed by a foreign crew and properly denounced as staged.

The fact the International press is being very careful about this is quite significant. The fact US administration and Venezuelan administration are blaming each other is also a reflection of your previoysly failed coup.

Notice how isolated the US declarations are ? Mmmm ?

Notice how scarce the supposed revolt is ? Mmmm ?

Notice how well equipped they are ? Mmmmm ?

 

Seems pretty clear to me.

First I don't remember ever talking to you, second, being filmed by foreigners, what drugs are you into? 

So...the videos and images that are in the OP are all a lie? created by the opposition? People dying on the streets are a lie? Don't give me that BS. I have family and friends there telling me all this. The revolts are all over the country, there are multiple places where the revolts are unlike Kiev.

How well equipped they are? what the fuck are you even talking about?

If you are unaware of the failed coup and the documentary "the revolution will not be televized" then you are in no position to even dicuss current events.

And by "you" you should have understood the plural "you" (what drugs prevented you from understanding such basic english ?)

The images show a very scarce crowd. The four deaths are not even linked to government troops but to mercenaries (which could like last time be hired by the opposition). There are even reports of the same bullets being used to kill a military and a protester.

They are equipped well enough to have national media broadcasting channels that support them since a decade now without having a balanced budget. Who pays the journalists ? The opposition parties are also being financed by US interests.

Yes im in the right to talk about the situation. My uncle saw 2 students getting shoot, he and the rest of my family and friends are the best proof ill need (i also experienced the same when i lived there)

If you can't trust anything that's on TV or social media then in Kiev nothing is happening, the Egypt manifestation was a lie and well as in Libia...

There's really no point in fighting people like you. 

Who says I don't believe in media ? Just not the trash that you seem to read and that is being funded by interest groups.

I am a subscriber of LeMonde, not the online edition, the newspaper, which is managed by it's own staff through the "société des rédacteurs du Monde". Also a reader of Washington Post, The Guardian, and El Pais.

In those fine press pages ou will find no accusation of the shots being made by the police or the military. As I was telling you in my first post in this thread the international press is being very careful about their approach on the current matter.

Before studying Corporate Communications and Data Systems' Architechture I obtained a first degree in Journalism at the ULB which is one of the top three french speaking universities.



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McGran said:
Kasz216 said:
kupomogli said:
osed125 said:
kupomogli said:
Is the US military going to do anything about this or no?

They didn't do anything on Egypt nor Libia a couple of years ago. Don't see them doing anything here either.

Start spreading rumors that the country has a large untapped oil reserve.  That's why the US attacked Iraq, even if they say it's for other reasons.

I guess all we can hope is that it passes over quickly and doesn't escalate.

A) No that wasn't why the US attacked Iraq.  The USA didn't even end up getting a lot of the Iraqi oil.  It mostly went to the Chinese.

I'm no expert but this seems pretty convincing...

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/19/opinion/iraq-war-oil-juhasz/

"Of course it's about oil; we can't really deny that," said Gen. John Abizaid, former head of U.S. Central Command and Military Operations in Iraq, in 2007. Former Federal Reserve Chairman Alan Greenspan agreed, writing in his memoir, "I am saddened that it is politically inconvenient to acknowledge what everyone knows: the Iraq war is largely about oil." Then-Sen. and now Defense Secretary Chuck Hagel said the same in 2007: "People say we're not fighting for oil. Of course we are.

For the first time in about 30 years, Western oil companies are exploring for and producing oil in Iraq from some of the world's largest oil fields and reaping enormous profit. And while the U.S. has also maintained fairly consistent level of Iraq oil imports since the invasion, the benefits are not finding their way through Iraq's economy or society.

So

1) Someone not in the know.

2) Someone not related to the incident

3) A democratic poltician.

 

Again.  Look at who is actually getting the oil.  The answer?  China.



osed125 said:
Kasz216 said:
kupomogli said:

Start spreading rumors that the country has a large untapped oil reserve.  That's why the US attacked Iraq, even if they say it's for other reasons.

I guess all we can hope is that it passes over quickly and doesn't escalate.

A) No that wasn't why the US attacked Iraq.  The USA didn't even end up getting a lot of the Iraqi oil.  It mostly went to the Chinese.

B) Venezuela does have a shit ton of oil... and it's not a secret.  It's part of the huge mismangement of the country under Chavez and Maduro, because they more or less gave the stuff away to countries they liked like Cuba.  

The Venezulian people could be rich... the problem is...  Having a poor underclass that requires government handouts makes a more consistant voting block for a socialist government party.

The management is SO bad that 10 years ago Venezuela was in second place of countries who exported oil to the U.S, last time I checked it was number 9.

And even more dire, Venezuela is importing gasoline (let that sink in for a moment).


Well it's not like they HAVE to export the oil to the US to make money.

They could export it to all kinds of non-US allied nations and make money.

It's just they more or less decided to give it away to various countries for political benefits that never really manifested.



Kasz216 said:
osed125 said:
Kasz216 said:
kupomogli said:

Start spreading rumors that the country has a large untapped oil reserve.  That's why the US attacked Iraq, even if they say it's for other reasons.

I guess all we can hope is that it passes over quickly and doesn't escalate.

A) No that wasn't why the US attacked Iraq.  The USA didn't even end up getting a lot of the Iraqi oil.  It mostly went to the Chinese.

B) Venezuela does have a shit ton of oil... and it's not a secret.  It's part of the huge mismangement of the country under Chavez and Maduro, because they more or less gave the stuff away to countries they liked like Cuba.  

The Venezulian people could be rich... the problem is...  Having a poor underclass that requires government handouts makes a more consistant voting block for a socialist government party.

The management is SO bad that 10 years ago Venezuela was in second place of countries who exported oil to the U.S, last time I checked it was number 9.

And even more dire, Venezuela is importing gasoline (let that sink in for a moment).


Well it's not like they HAVE to export the oil to the US to make money.

They could export it to all kinds of non-US allied nations and make money.

It's just they more or less decided to give it away to various countries for political benefits that never really manifested.

In both an ironic and somewhat truly noble gesture, they were giving some of it away to Americans. Specifically through the help of Citgo, they were making heating oil and kerosene available to low-income households. I remember the ads.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Mr Khan said:
Kasz216 said:


Well it's not like they HAVE to export the oil to the US to make money.

They could export it to all kinds of non-US allied nations and make money.

It's just they more or less decided to give it away to various countries for political benefits that never really manifested.

In both an ironic and somewhat truly noble gesture, they were giving some of it away to Americans. Specifically through the help of Citgo, they were making heating oil and kerosene available to low-income households. I remember the ads.

Yeah that would be nice and all, but while the government in giving away free oil, the people can't find milk, eggs, toilet paper or tooth pastes in the supermarkets (just to name a few products) and can't find medicines neither...



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Kasz216 said:
osed125 said:

The management is SO bad that 10 years ago Venezuela was in second place of countries who exported oil to the U.S, last time I checked it was number 9.

And even more dire, Venezuela is importing gasoline (let that sink in for a moment).


Well it's not like they HAVE to export the oil to the US to make money.

They could export it to all kinds of non-US allied nations and make money.

It's just they more or less decided to give it away to various countries for political benefits that never really manifested.

It was just an example of the bad management, of course Venezuela exports to other countries, they have to survived somehow.

Heck PDVSA (the government oil company) used to be in the top 5 best oil companies in world 10 years ago...now it isn't even charted.



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LiquorandGunFun said:
Another failure of socialism. My thoughts and prayers go to the people and their freedom from tyranny.


Nice way to Label something socialism, which is not. LOl



Mr Khan said:
maximus22 said:
This is absolutely horrifying and heart breaking. Yet another reason why I for one will never let my government disarm me.

Yes, because being able to shoot back stops them from wanting to shoot you. Instead of Egypt you get South Sudan. Good idea.


Yes because history proves that as soon as their citizens posess weapons, societies turn into wartorn Africa.  In any case if worse comes to much worse an armed people at least stands a chance of changing things if and when its government becomes hostile as is the case in Venezuela which is what this thread is about.

 

Besides, the difference between Egypt's and Sudan's guns per capita is negligible so your comparison doesn't make much sense.



maximus22 said:
Mr Khan said:
maximus22 said:
This is absolutely horrifying and heart breaking. Yet another reason why I for one will never let my government disarm me.

Yes, because being able to shoot back stops them from wanting to shoot you. Instead of Egypt you get South Sudan. Good idea.


Yes because history proves that as soon as their citizens posess weapons, societies turn into wartorn Africa.  In any case if worse comes to much worse an armed people at least stands a chance of changing things if and when its government becomes hostile as is the case in Venezuela which is what this thread is about.

 

Besides, the difference between Egypt's and Sudan's guns per capita is negligible so your comparison doesn't make much sense.

The point being that the Egyptian opposition hasn't taken up those arms. If they had, it *would* be a civil war, which is no good for anyone.

The implication that the people should be fighting back with weapons in this case is misguided at best, because it only fuels the fire in high-tension situations like this, especially given that the people's weapons are never going to match the government's. It's merely a recipe for slaughter rather than some imagined noble rebellion, much like the pipe-dream of the American right that all those guns out there would make any sort of difference if they decided to revolt against the Feds.



Monster Hunter: pissing me off since 2010.

Mr Khan said:
maximus22 said:
Mr Khan said:
maximus22 said:
This is absolutely horrifying and heart breaking. Yet another reason why I for one will never let my government disarm me.

Yes, because being able to shoot back stops them from wanting to shoot you. Instead of Egypt you get South Sudan. Good idea.


Yes because history proves that as soon as their citizens posess weapons, societies turn into wartorn Africa.  In any case if worse comes to much worse an armed people at least stands a chance of changing things if and when its government becomes hostile as is the case in Venezuela which is what this thread is about.

 

Besides, the difference between Egypt's and Sudan's guns per capita is negligible so your comparison doesn't make much sense.

The point being that the Egyptian opposition hasn't taken up those arms. If they had, it *would* be a civil war, which is no good for anyone.

The implication that the people should be fighting back with weapons in this case is misguided at best, because it only fuels the fire in high-tension situations like this, especially given that the people's weapons are never going to match the government's. It's merely a recipe for slaughter rather than some imagined noble rebellion, much like the pipe-dream of the American right that all those guns out there would make any sort of difference if they decided to revolt against the Feds.


That kind of thinking is the only thing that gives tyrannical governments any power whatsoever.  I guess no matter how many times the opposite is proven there will always be people like you thinking that the people are no match for their government, even when the people are as well armed as those of the U.S.  Even with the largest and most technologically advanced military on earth the U.S. would stand absolutely zero chance at quelling a rebellion if it happened.  Sheer numbers alone are far too overwhelming.  Add to that the fact that that well over half the population has access to a gun if needed and what you just said becomes laughable.  A complete joke and nothing more.