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Forums - Nintendo - Did Nintendo screw us?

DMeisterJ said:
I think that thhe whole "devs were blindsided by the Wii's success" thing is such a horrible excuse. Games like Call of Duty 4 or Burnout Paradise, which went into production after the PS3 came out beg to differ about developers not knowing about a systems success only doing shovelware.

Someone else can find out about Burnout, but you are absolutely incorrect about CoD4:

http://www.gamersyde.com/news_5484_en.html

Conception for Call of Duty 4: Modern Warfare started quite a while ago, as the core team here at Infinity Ward has wanted to make a Modern Warfare game for quite some time, with actual development starting on the game right off the heels of Call of Duty 2.

FYI, CoD2 was released Oct 2005 on PC and Nov 2005 on Xbox 360, so CoD4 development may have started even before the 360 launched.



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I think it's clear by now that this thread is the perfect counterexample to the popular opinion that these forums are filled with roving packs of Wii fanatics that crucify anyone daring to question their gods Nintendo and Wii or their high prophets Miyamoto etc.

The first several responses to the OP were either agreeing with it or saying that the Wii horde was on its way. Then, when disagreeing opinions came in, they were still articulate and rational, giving specific points of dispute calmly instead of flaming.

There were a few posts that were just attacks on the OP, but no more than anyone gets in any thread. In fact, kingofwale got much more grief than the OP!



Tag (courtesy of fkusumot): "Please feel free -- nay, I encourage you -- to offer rebuttal."
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My advice to fanboys: Brag about stuff that's true, not about stuff that's false. Predict stuff that's likely, not stuff that's unlikely. You will be happier, and we will be happier.

"Everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts." - Sen. Pat Moynihan
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I have the most epic death scene ever in VGChartz Mafia.  Thanks WordsofWisdom! 

Here's a thought.....don't buy the shovelware. That'll teach em.



Wii Code 8761-5941-4718-0078 

The OP is completely uninformed, biased and probably stating his opinion with the sole purpose of angering others.

In other words, he should be an analyst.



"I mean, c'mon, Viva Pinata, a game with massive marketing, didn't sell worth a damn to the "sophisticated" 360 audience, despite near-universal praise--is that a sign that 360 owners are a bunch of casual ignoramuses that can't get their heads around a 'gardening' sim? Of course not. So let's please stop trying to micro-analyze one game out of hundreds and using it as the poster child for why good, non-1st party, games can't sell on Wii. (Everyone frequenting this site knows this is nonsense, and yet some of you just can't let it go because it's the only scab you have left to pick at after all your other "Wii will phail1!!1" straw men arguments have been put to the torch.)" - exindguy on Boom Blocks

Smash_Brother said:
The OP is completely uninformed, biased and probably stating his opinion with the sole purpose of angering others.

In other words, he should be an analyst.

 Hehehehehe. The Truth you speak.  Maybe Bruceongames could use him to write articles in his blog.



Tag: Hawk - Reluctant Dark Messiah (provided by fkusumot)

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As a Wii owner I can definitely say I was not let down by Nintendo and I think most other Wii owners agree. In addition to new expierience games like WiiSports we have recieved updates to all our favorite Nintendo franchises all within the first two years.

There wil be more first and thrid party classic games then the much-vaulted but sucess limited Gamecube.

Now I am supposed to be upset for some reason. But my hardcore and casual side have been satisfied. Oh wait the OP is somehow blaiming Nintendo for 3rd party games when there will be more support for this system than any of their's since the SNES days.

I agree that it is much like the PS1, more so than the PS2. 3rd parties will be ready for the end of Wii and then the Wii2.

I get sick of the aguement "why would they make good games when crap makes money on the wii?" That would be as bad as saying "Why is anyone still making games for the PS3, they lose money". Developers are getting more and more confident about the Wii and the software marketplace is now getting crowded, so in an effort to rise above the junk devlopers will make better games to capture the huge Wii audience.



Final* Word on Game Delays:

The game will not be any better or include more content then planned. Any commnets that say so are just PR hogwash to make you feel better for having to wait.

Delays are due to lack of proper resources, skill, or adequate planning by the developer.

Do be thankful that they have enough respect for you to delay the game and maintain its intended level of quality.

*naznatips is exempt

dschumm said: Developers are getting more and more confident about the Wii and the software marketplace is now getting crowded, so in an effort to rise above the junk devlopers will make better games to capture the huge Wii audience.

 Quoted for absolute truth.

This happened with the PS1. It'll happen with the Wii as well.

The fatal flaw in the OP's argument is this: the console with the biggest library, wins.

This is not open for debate or discussion, because I don't care how hardcore of a gamer you are, unless you buy 30 copies of every game you like, you are a minority of the game purchasing market.

The majority are the uninformed masses, the people who do not realize that there are games beyond those that line the walls of Gamestop.

These people, especially parents, only want to know ONE thing when it comes to buying a console: which one has the most games?

It doesn't matter price (as is evidenced by the GC), it doesn't matter quality. All the average Joe consumer understands is quantity, and it's a cyclical pattern: more people buy a console, more companies develop games for it, more people buy it because it has more games, etc., etc.

And the end result of this is that, when it's time to produce AAA titles, the good devs look REAL hard at which console has the largest install base and make it for that console, and that console is the Wii.

It didn't matter last gen that you'd have an easier time porting graphically superior games between the GC and Xbox than the PS2 because the size of the PS2's userbase made that fact irrelevant.

When the Wii has more than the COMBINED install base of the 360 and PS3, no dev will care that porting between the PS360 will be easier to do because it still won't be a better financial decision than developing for the Wii.

In short, the Wii's current supply of shovelware is completely expected as par for the course, and it's good for the Wii because it inflates sales numbers and that helps sell more Wiis.

Do you think Sony, when asked about the PS2 library, would ever say, "Well, we have about 200 GOOD games."? God no. They'll say "Over 2,700 titles!" without the slightest hint of irony, despite the fact that they know as well as anyone that the vast majority of those game discs aren't even worthy of being used as coasters because even the art on the disc is hideous and the manual wouldn't even make for decent toilet paper.



"I mean, c'mon, Viva Pinata, a game with massive marketing, didn't sell worth a damn to the "sophisticated" 360 audience, despite near-universal praise--is that a sign that 360 owners are a bunch of casual ignoramuses that can't get their heads around a 'gardening' sim? Of course not. So let's please stop trying to micro-analyze one game out of hundreds and using it as the poster child for why good, non-1st party, games can't sell on Wii. (Everyone frequenting this site knows this is nonsense, and yet some of you just can't let it go because it's the only scab you have left to pick at after all your other "Wii will phail1!!1" straw men arguments have been put to the torch.)" - exindguy on Boom Blocks

you should just go and hide now for a month.



"Like you know"

I think my post is being picked apart only at it's weakest points. Why not address the fact that Nintendo is opening up the market to developers to make beginners games? The PS2 had plenty of shovelware, no one can deny it. But back in those days, I never heard a developer say their concentration on making their PS2 game was for a "casual" audience.

Monster Hunter for PS2 scored a 68 on metacritic. It may sell well, but it doesn't exactly scream quality. I'll give it up for Fatal Frame, because it's new developers are geniuses coming off of a near AAA quality game. Just how long into the Wii's lifecycle are we going to see the abundance of quality third party titles they should have based on it's market share? Year three? Year four?

Developers are not feeling the incentive to pull together huge teams to make Wii games. They see that they need them to be successful on 360 and PS3. They don't have endless amounts of spare cash and manpower. With Capcom still working on Resident Evil 5, Street Fighter IV and Bionic Commando for 2009, Rockstar finishing GTAIV, then working on L.A. Noire and the exclusive PS3 game for 2009, Konami trying to finish MGS4 and then bringing out Metal Gear Online, plus upkeeping it, Ubisoft finishing Rainbow Six Vegas 2, working on Splinter Cell Conviction for later 2008, and then Prince of Persia for 2009, plus the possiblity of the next installment of Assassin's Creed, Square-Enix working on the two FF XIII games, releasing new content for FF XI, finishing DQIX for DS, working on FFIV for DS, finishing the Last Remnant, Pandemic finishing Mercenaries 2 and then finishing Sabotuer, Bioware working on Sonic Chronicles for the DS, the new MMO, and KOTOR III(which could be for the Wii I know, but thus far have to figure Bioware will stick with 360 and/or PS3), Activision has shown that they'll let Treyarch put inferior Call of Duty's on the Wii but not Infinity Ward, etc. etc.

When can the Wii finally get a share of the pie?

The PS2, as someone, mentioned previously, already had an extensive third party lineup by the end of it's first year and 4 months, with plenty of great titles announced and on the way.

Tekken Tag Tournament(at launch/October 2000) 85%

Timesplitters(at launch/October 2000) 81%

SSX(at launch/October 2000) 93%

Dead or Alive 2: Hardcore(at launch) 91%

Rayman 2: Revolution(January 2001) 90%

Star Wars Starfighter(February 2001) 84%

Onimusha Warlords(March 2001) 86%

Ring of Red(March 2001) 82%

Quake III: Revolution(March 2001) 84%

Red Faction(May 2001) 88%

Escape From Monkey Island(June 2001) 84%

Klonoa 2(July 2001) 91%

Resident Evil CODE: Veronica X(August 2001) 84%

Silent Hill 2(September 2001) 89%

Time Crisis 2(October 2001) 81%

Devil May Cry(October 2001) 94% 

Ace Combat 4(October 2001) 89%

Grand Theft Auto III(October 2001) 97%

Tony Hawk Pro Skater 3(October 2001) 97%

Soul Reaver 2(October 2001) 80%

SSX Tricky(November 2001) 92%

Capcom vs. SNK 2(November 2001) 81%

Metal Gear Solid 2(November 2001) 96%

Half-Life(November 2001) 87%

Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance(December 2001) 87%

Max Payne(December 2001) 80%

Final fantasy X(December 2001) 92% 

With a lineup like that, no one cared that the PS2 had shovelware. It wasn't affecting the developers from coming out with stellar titles. Honestly, even with Wii's success, do you see them having a year like that this year? Next year? Ever? Each developer is in a position that they develop a game for PS3 and 360 or the Wii. Once you take that into account, it doesn't matter if Wii is beating each console, because it needs to be a sweeter deal than developing for both of the other consoles combined. 



Tag: Became a freaking mod and a complete douche, coincidentally, at the same time.



I didn't really feel like reading all the posts in this thread, so forgive me if something I say has been said before. I can totally understand your reasoning, and you might be partially right, but I've got some criticisms too:
-Do not bash Capcom. Really, just don't. They made RE4, Z&W and RE:UC, arguably three of the best games on the Wii - even though RE4 was a port, it was still very relevant. If any third party is doing things right, it's probably Capcom.
-You're forgetting that a lot of potentially great titles are headed our way (or already out in some parts of the world, but not in Europe). To name a few: Fatal Frame, No More Heroes, Tales of Symphonia, Deadly Creatures, Alone in the Dark (although that one's multiplatform), Okami (a port, but a relevant port), Fragile, and who knows what else.
-Even if there aren't huge buttloads of quality titles, there are still enough of them to keep playing throughout the year. Plus that they get the attention they deserve more easily, by standing out gloriously above the seas of shovelware (poetry FTW).
-The Wiimote has cleared the way for a (possible) revival of point & click/adventure games, which happen to be a lot cheaper to make and thus, safer bets. This will encourage developers to make more quality titles in this genre.



I drink your milkshake.