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Forums - Gaming - A quick take on MS's E3 and the Kinect as a peripheral

Shinobi-san on 19 February 2014
ArnoldRimmer said:
Shinobi-san said:

You are absolutely correct.

My bad. Although when it comes to a games console it might be a bit different? That is if we define a game console and Personal Computer as two different things...which we probably cant so yes you are right.

I must admit that I didn't even know the correct definition of a "peripheral" myself until I had another look at the Wikipedia page. For some reason, I actually considered the hard drive to not be a peripheral.

While I can see your point about a game console eventually being a special case, (since it's not exactly a standard computer), I don't think that really makes a difference. Wikipedia for example states that "In a system on a chip, peripherals are incorporated into the same integrated circuit as the central processing unit. They are still referred to as "peripherals" despite being permanently attached to (and in some sense part of) their host processor." I think this is a somewhat similar case.

I think even if something like a traditional controller is mandatory for the actual firmware/operating system being used, that doesn't change the devices "peripheral or not" status. The software being run does not decide if something is a peripheral. Otherwise, a graphics card for example would have to be considered a peripheral under Linux, but not under Windows.

I think a better word to have used was Add-on. Although Wikipedia references peripherals in the definition of a hardware add-on LOL

But then it goes on to mention a video game accessory which is what we are really discussing. The problem here is that this covers both essential and non essential accessories.

The argument that the OP probably wanted was "Is Kinect an essential or non essential video game accessory"



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Shinobi-san on 19 February 2014
VitroBahllee said:
Shinobi-san said:
VitroBahllee said:
Shinobi-san said:

No. You're just not understanding what peripheral means. Perhaps you should have used the word add on in the OP that way you can win the argument.


The OP is simply QUOTING THE HEADLINE OF THE NEWS ARTICLE HE IS REFERRING TO.

Go get on the case of the journalist who wrote it. It's not anybody on this board's fault. You should be a tech news editor with your attention to detail with regards to terminology. That's laudable. But it's derailing this conversation.


Turns out this isnt an article and Sevengen wrote this himself so yeah....

From Polygon - http://www.polygon.com/2014/2/17/5419464/microsoft-xbox-one-remove-kinect-pack-in

So yeah....

He is claiming he wrote it though?

Edit: The article you linked to and the OP is different



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VitroBahllee on 19 February 2014
Shinobi-san said:
ArnoldRimmer said:
Shinobi-san said:

You are absolutely correct.

My bad. Although when it comes to a games console it might be a bit different? That is if we define a game console and Personal Computer as two different things...which we probably cant so yes you are right.

I must admit that I didn't even know the correct definition of a "peripheral" myself until I had another look at the Wikipedia page. For some reason, I actually considered the hard drive to not be a peripheral.

While I can see your point about a game console eventually being a special case, (since it's not exactly a standard computer), I don't think that really makes a difference. Wikipedia for example states that "In a system on a chip, peripherals are incorporated into the same integrated circuit as the central processing unit. They are still referred to as "peripherals" despite being permanently attached to (and in some sense part of) their host processor." I think this is a somewhat similar case.

I think even if something like a traditional controller is mandatory for the actual firmware/operating system being used, that doesn't change the devices "peripheral or not" status. The software being run does not decide if something is a peripheral. Otherwise, a graphics card for example would have to be considered a peripheral under Linux, but not under Windows.

I think a better word to have used was Add-on. Although Wikipedia references peripherals in the definition of a hardware add-on LOL

But then it goes on to mention a video game accessory which is what we are really discussing. The problem here is that this covers both essential and non essential accessories.

The argument that the OP probably wanted was "Is Kinect an essential or non essential video game accessory"

Here is the Polygon article - http://www.polygon.com/2014/2/17/5419464/microsoft-xbox-one-remove-kinect-pack-in - Headline?

"Microsoft needs to admit the Xbox One Kinect is a peripheral, not a pack-in"

I've tried to point this out to you a number of times. Please make the conversation about whether you agree with this or not, not about the use of the word. You've said 'it wasn't an article, the OP wrote it.' He was just quoting this article, which IS an article. This part of the conversation is resolved now. Back on subject.



ArnoldRimmer on 19 February 2014
Sevengen said:
ArnoldRimmer said:
Sevengen said:
ArnoldRimmer said:
Sevengen said:

I'm just as entitled to question your perception as you are mine...

You seriously wonder why I have such a problem accepting that word???
Alright, fair being fair, than you have to agree with me wondering why you can't accept that it's not a peripheral.
Right?

Huh? It's not like everyone can simply define his own meaning of a word, a word like "peripheral" has a rather clear definition, that one can, for example, look up on Wikipedia. And the Wikipedia article makes perfectly clear that something similar to a webcam is indeed a "peripheral" - as are, for example:

  • computer mice
  • keyboards
  • graphics cards
  • scannners
  • microphones
  • speakers
  • webcams
  • DVD drives
  • and even hard-disks

Wikipedia states "According to the most technical definition, the only pieces of a computer not considered to be peripherals are the central processing unit, power supply, motherboard, and computer case."

I'm just pointing out that unlike other definitions, the definition of a computer/console peripheral is very clear and specific, and according to that definition, Kinect is clearly a peripheral.

Well, so that was my rationale for not accepting that it's not a peripheral: The usual definitions of "peripheral" clearly state otherwise.

 

So now, please explain why YOU cannot accept the official definition of a "peripheral", as to me it seems like for some reason you consider the word "peripheral" to have a negative touch that questions the usability of a device. (I would for example say that the word "gimmick", which the Kinect is often called, indeed has a certain negative touch).

look man.. it's included with every Xbox One sold, it's intergral to the operation of the system. Period.
End of story.
It's not a peripheral and it doesn't matter how many responses you come up with to try and contradict me.
Like I just got done telling Shinob...
take away the traditional controller can you still do everything you want to do on Xbox One other than play games that 'require' a traditional controller....
Yep!
Soooooooooooooooooooo.. it if the traditional controller gets hit by a bus, or stolen by thieves, or flushed down the toilet, or thrown away by your mom, or used in a weird way by your sister and hidden beneath her mattress... can you still use your Xbox One.
Yep!
we're done here.

Good lord, I think I have never seen such ignorance. Even faced with clear proof that your understanding of the word "peripheral" is simply wrong, you choose to ignore any facts that don't fit your opinion, and come up with pretty much the same, completely pointless argument.

see here we go...
now did imply that you were ignorant, or that you're opinions were ignorant.
NO.
I kept it relatively friendly and I was able to do so because my argument didn't/doesn't need insults to help bolster it's premise.
Obviously your does, which is where you truly lose the discussion.
When a person's argument devolves into personal attacks, that's the point where they know they've lost... because they can't manufature any further logic to sustain their point and end up giving into frustration.
later Arnold.
better luck next time.

Maybe calling your behaviour ignorant wasn't the wisest choice, as I can understand some people considering this to be insulting. But I'm not saying you are an ignorant person anyway, just that I feel that your current behaviour regarding the definition of "peripheral" is indeed "ignorant" - by the definition of "ignorance": "The word ignorant is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware and is often used as an insult to describe individuals who deliberately ignore or disregard important information or facts."

...as your are indeed completely and deliberately ignoring the information from Wikipedia, for example.



VitroBahllee on 19 February 2014
Shinobi-san said:
VitroBahllee said:
Shinobi-san said:
VitroBahllee said:
Shinobi-san said:

No. You're just not understanding what peripheral means. Perhaps you should have used the word add on in the OP that way you can win the argument.


The OP is simply QUOTING THE HEADLINE OF THE NEWS ARTICLE HE IS REFERRING TO.

Go get on the case of the journalist who wrote it. It's not anybody on this board's fault. You should be a tech news editor with your attention to detail with regards to terminology. That's laudable. But it's derailing this conversation.


Turns out this isnt an article and Sevengen wrote this himself so yeah....

From Polygon - http://www.polygon.com/2014/2/17/5419464/microsoft-xbox-one-remove-kinect-pack-in

So yeah....

He is claiming he wrote it though?

Sigh... He wrote a RESPONSE to this article which is what the OP is. For someone who is so sharp on the subtle meanings of words, you're having a hard time understanding the very simple thing that is going on here.



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VitroBahllee on 19 February 2014
ArnoldRimmer said:
Sevengen said:
ArnoldRimmer said:
Sevengen said:
ArnoldRimmer said:
Sevengen said:

I'm just as entitled to question your perception as you are mine...

You seriously wonder why I have such a problem accepting that word???
Alright, fair being fair, than you have to agree with me wondering why you can't accept that it's not a peripheral.
Right?

Huh? It's not like everyone can simply define his own meaning of a word, a word like "peripheral" has a rather clear definition, that one can, for example, look up on Wikipedia. And the Wikipedia article makes perfectly clear that something similar to a webcam is indeed a "peripheral" - as are, for example:

  • computer mice
  • keyboards
  • graphics cards
  • scannners
  • microphones
  • speakers
  • webcams
  • DVD drives
  • and even hard-disks

Wikipedia states "According to the most technical definition, the only pieces of a computer not considered to be peripherals are the central processing unit, power supply, motherboard, and computer case."

I'm just pointing out that unlike other definitions, the definition of a computer/console peripheral is very clear and specific, and according to that definition, Kinect is clearly a peripheral.

Well, so that was my rationale for not accepting that it's not a peripheral: The usual definitions of "peripheral" clearly state otherwise.

 

So now, please explain why YOU cannot accept the official definition of a "peripheral", as to me it seems like for some reason you consider the word "peripheral" to have a negative touch that questions the usability of a device. (I would for example say that the word "gimmick", which the Kinect is often called, indeed has a certain negative touch).

look man.. it's included with every Xbox One sold, it's intergral to the operation of the system. Period.
End of story.
It's not a peripheral and it doesn't matter how many responses you come up with to try and contradict me.
Like I just got done telling Shinob...
take away the traditional controller can you still do everything you want to do on Xbox One other than play games that 'require' a traditional controller....
Yep!
Soooooooooooooooooooo.. it if the traditional controller gets hit by a bus, or stolen by thieves, or flushed down the toilet, or thrown away by your mom, or used in a weird way by your sister and hidden beneath her mattress... can you still use your Xbox One.
Yep!
we're done here.

Good lord, I think I have never seen such ignorance. Even faced with clear proof that your understanding of the word "peripheral" is simply wrong, you choose to ignore any facts that don't fit your opinion, and come up with pretty much the same, completely pointless argument.

see here we go...
now did imply that you were ignorant, or that you're opinions were ignorant.
NO.
I kept it relatively friendly and I was able to do so because my argument didn't/doesn't need insults to help bolster it's premise.
Obviously your does, which is where you truly lose the discussion.
When a person's argument devolves into personal attacks, that's the point where they know they've lost... because they can't manufature any further logic to sustain their point and end up giving into frustration.
later Arnold.
better luck next time.

Maybe calling your behaviour ignorant wasn't the wisest choice, as I can understand some people considering this to be insulting. But I'm not saying you are an ignorant person anyway, just that I feel that your current behaviour regarding the definition of "peripheral" is indeed "ignorant" - by the definition of "ignorance": "The word ignorant is an adjective describing a person in the state of being unaware and is often used as an insult to describe individuals who deliberately ignore or disregard important information or facts."

...as your are indeed completely and deliberately ignoring the information from Wikipedia, for example.


You too are ignoring the fact that he was merely using the terminology of the Polygon article.

"Microsoft needs to admit the Xbox One Kinect is a peripheral, not a pack-in "
http://www.polygon.com/2014/2/17/5419464/microsoft-xbox-one-remove-kinect-pack-in

So the journalist used the wrong word in their article. The OP should have used a different one. We've resolved that. Move past it.



Shinobi-san on 19 February 2014
VitroBahllee said:
Shinobi-san said:
VitroBahllee said:
Shinobi-san said:
VitroBahllee said:
Shinobi-san said:

No. You're just not understanding what peripheral means. Perhaps you should have used the word add on in the OP that way you can win the argument.


The OP is simply QUOTING THE HEADLINE OF THE NEWS ARTICLE HE IS REFERRING TO.

Go get on the case of the journalist who wrote it. It's not anybody on this board's fault. You should be a tech news editor with your attention to detail with regards to terminology. That's laudable. But it's derailing this conversation.


Turns out this isnt an article and Sevengen wrote this himself so yeah....

From Polygon - http://www.polygon.com/2014/2/17/5419464/microsoft-xbox-one-remove-kinect-pack-in

So yeah....

He is claiming he wrote it though?

Sigh... He wrote a RESPONSE to this article which is what the OP is. For someone who is so sharp on the subtle meanings of words, you're having a hard time understanding the very simple thing that is going on here.

Why are you getting pissed at me? The OP didnt give a link to the article and makes no mention of the article in the OP. He then directs a post directly AT YOU and ME to say he did wright the OP. Whether it was in response to another article or not how the hell am i to know that especially after he corrects you and again makes no mention of the article.

And like i said if you think im derailing report me.



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Dr.Henry_Killinger on 19 February 2014
Sevengen said:

Price or innovation?
Innovation always wins in the long run.. would you be reading this on your tablet or smartphone if it didn't?

Innovation doesn't win, Quality does.

The only signficant difference between the XB1 and PS4 are the price and the Kinect. Because MS made the Kinect optional and made the XB1 500$ it makes the Kinect seem like its adding to the price. Furthermore, those who do not want the Kinect see the additional hundred dollars as paying for something they don't want.

Thus if MS is confident about Kinect, they will assume the loss of it because "kinect sales" are less important to them then "kinect userbase". 

At $400 dollars, its the price of its competitor, thus the stigma of paying for the Kinect is greatly reduced.

The bundling of the Kinect is the ultimate argument of the PC Gamer. Because the PC gamer determines exactly what hardware they want at exactly what price, so they determine how much they want to pay, simmilar to the f2p model.

As long as the Kinect adds on to the pericieve price difference, it will be a peripheral.



In this day and age, with the Internet, ignorance is a choice! And they're still choosing Ignorance! - Dr. Filthy Frank

VitroBahllee on 19 February 2014
Shinobi-san said:
VitroBahllee said:
Shinobi-san said:
VitroBahllee said:
Shinobi-san said:
VitroBahllee said:
Shinobi-san said:

No. You're just not understanding what peripheral means. Perhaps you should have used the word add on in the OP that way you can win the argument.


The OP is simply QUOTING THE HEADLINE OF THE NEWS ARTICLE HE IS REFERRING TO.

Go get on the case of the journalist who wrote it. It's not anybody on this board's fault. You should be a tech news editor with your attention to detail with regards to terminology. That's laudable. But it's derailing this conversation.


Turns out this isnt an article and Sevengen wrote this himself so yeah....

From Polygon - http://www.polygon.com/2014/2/17/5419464/microsoft-xbox-one-remove-kinect-pack-in

So yeah....

He is claiming he wrote it though?

Sigh... He wrote a RESPONSE to this article which is what the OP is. For someone who is so sharp on the subtle meanings of words, you're having a hard time understanding the very simple thing that is going on here.

Why are you getting pissed at me? The OP didnt give a link to the article and makes no mention of the article in the OP. He then directs a post directly AT YOU and ME to say he did wright the OP. Whether it was in response to another article or not how the hell am i to know that especially after he corrects you and again makes no mention of the article.

And like i said if you think im derailing report me.

I'm not mad I'm just explaining. I just am surprised it's taking you so long to understand something that's pretty simple. I'm not mad at you. Stop begging me to report you. It's not a big deal buddy.



Skeeuk on 19 February 2014

what's with the arguments? most people don't want kinect they just want the console and controller

kinect should be optional only, it's driven up the price



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