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Forums - Nintendo - After seeing Bayonetta 2 and 'X' in action today...

 

The PS4's power seems...

Better, but not THAT much better anymore... 241 15.42%
 
Are you crazy?! The PS4 is GOD! 349 22.33%
 
The Wii U is clearly unde... 741 47.41%
 
The PS4 is selling better... 36 2.30%
 
I think I'll be buying a... 191 12.22%
 
Total:1,558
fatslob-:O on 13 February 2014
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:

It can't be precomputed because where and how the blocks will fall off will be different depending on player actions. Besides, it wasn't precomputed on the Wii or 3DS versions.

You implied Wii U couldn't do fluid simulation; that's clearly not the case seeing as the freaking Wii did fluid simulation. (See The Conduit and the original Art of Balance)

http://www.thebitblock.com/2010/02/15/gameplay-art-of-balance-wii-ware/

Ahh now I get it. It's probably another hack ...

It's using definitely using texture overlapping instead of simulated water displacement. The Water doesn't act quite right in my opinion and it feels very much like an animation compared to this ...

It's not just texture layering because the borders of the water physically moves in terms of how far it reaches up the sides of its container in the games I listed.

And if the Wii can do it, the much more powerful Wii U certainly can.

Hmm ... The displacement looks more like some overlapped textures rather than a realistic splash in real life compared to this ...

You do realize that this hack can also be used for cases where projectiles land at a different spot ? 



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fatslob-:O on 13 February 2014
JoeTheBro said:
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:

It can't be precomputed because where and how the blocks will fall off will be different depending on player actions. Besides, it wasn't precomputed on the Wii or 3DS versions.

You implied Wii U couldn't do fluid simulation; that's clearly not the case seeing as the freaking Wii did fluid simulation. (See The Conduit and the original Art of Balance)

http://www.thebitblock.com/2010/02/15/gameplay-art-of-balance-wii-ware/

Ahh now I get it. It's probably another hack ...

It's using definitely using texture overlapping instead of simulated water displacement. The Water doesn't act quite right in my opinion and it feels very much like an animation compared to this ...

It's not just texture layering because the borders of the water physically moves in terms of how far it reaches up the sides of its container in the games I listed.

And if the Wii can do it, the much more powerful Wii U certainly can.

The Wii U game looks like a "hack." However the Wii U one certainly isn't. Did you see the PS3 water simulation video I posted? Fluid simulations are pretty easy if they can use 90% of the system's power. If I was fatslob my point wouldn't be that the Wii U can't do fluids, but that it can't do them while doing other things.

Something seems a little off about that demo ... Where exactly are the cannon balls ? 



curl-6 on 14 February 2014
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:

It can't be precomputed because where and how the blocks will fall off will be different depending on player actions. Besides, it wasn't precomputed on the Wii or 3DS versions.

You implied Wii U couldn't do fluid simulation; that's clearly not the case seeing as the freaking Wii did fluid simulation. (See The Conduit and the original Art of Balance)

http://www.thebitblock.com/2010/02/15/gameplay-art-of-balance-wii-ware/

Ahh now I get it. It's probably another hack ...

It's using definitely using texture overlapping instead of simulated water displacement. The Water doesn't act quite right in my opinion and it feels very much like an animation compared to this ...

It's not just texture layering because the borders of the water physically moves in terms of how far it reaches up the sides of its container in the games I listed.

And if the Wii can do it, the much more powerful Wii U certainly can.

Hmm ... The displacement looks more like some overlapped textures rather than a realistic splash in real life compared to this ...

You do realize that this hack can also be used for cases where projectiles land at a different spot ? 

But if it was just overlapping textures, the height of the liquid on the sides of the container would stay the same. Since it doesn't, the actual surface is animating.



binary solo on 14 February 2014

But can it do Tomb Raider Definitive Edition?



“The fundamental cause of the trouble is that in the modern world the stupid are cocksure while the intelligent are full of doubt.” - Bertrand Russell

"When the power of love overcomes the love of power, the world will know peace."

Jimi Hendrix

 

JoeTheBro on 14 February 2014
curl-6 said:
JoeTheBro said:

The Wii U game looks like a "hack." However the Wii U one certainly isn't. Did you see the PS3 water simulation video I posted? Fluid simulations are pretty easy if they can use 90% of the system's power. If I was fatslob my point wouldn't be that the Wii U can't do fluids, but that it can't do them while doing other things.

What do you mean by a "hack"? A precomputed animation? If that were the case, how would it account for blocks falling different places according to player actions? And then there's The Conduit, where you can choose where in the pool to shoot to trigger the rippling simulation.

It's basically a cloth simulation instead of a fluid simulation. Only the surface of the water exists. Ripples and everything work fine, but the surface can't break like with real water. Because of this splashes and the like use additional effects. It's very standard.

In this part of Uncharted 3, the ocean, the pool, and the water at the end all use this technique.

They worked great for last gen games.

Moving forward though with the power of next gen we can/will/might switch to actual fluid simulations like this:

This isn't a pretty demo or 100% what I'm talking about, but it shows how this water is a volume and not a surface. It has ripples like the water in uncharted, but it also has folds and dynamic splashes. Like real-time verse pre-baked lighting this could become the standard as we move forward.



Links

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fatslob-:O on 14 February 2014
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:

It can't be precomputed because where and how the blocks will fall off will be different depending on player actions. Besides, it wasn't precomputed on the Wii or 3DS versions.

You implied Wii U couldn't do fluid simulation; that's clearly not the case seeing as the freaking Wii did fluid simulation. (See The Conduit and the original Art of Balance)

http://www.thebitblock.com/2010/02/15/gameplay-art-of-balance-wii-ware/

Ahh now I get it. It's probably another hack ...

It's using definitely using texture overlapping instead of simulated water displacement. The Water doesn't act quite right in my opinion and it feels very much like an animation compared to this ...

It's not just texture layering because the borders of the water physically moves in terms of how far it reaches up the sides of its container in the games I listed.

And if the Wii can do it, the much more powerful Wii U certainly can.

Hmm ... The displacement looks more like some overlapped textures rather than a realistic splash in real life compared to this ...

You do realize that this hack can also be used for cases where projectiles land at a different spot ? 

But if it was just overlapping textures, the height of the liquid on the sides of the container would stay the same. Since it doesn't, the actual surface is animating.

I have some trouble telling if it is the same height or not although the hack can also be programmed for different heights too and don't forget that games can also use some multiple fixed animations for different situations also to make the simulation more seemless.



generic-user-1 on 14 February 2014
larrysdirtydrawss said:
really? just watched the trailer,not bad,but gow3 looks better,honestly it does... kzsf/ryse smoke this by miles, many games on ps4/xone beat this easily

both games look good, thats the point. they both arnt the bestlooking nextgen games u can find, not even close. but both look well enough

that there is no reason to scream ugly lastgen game, like people do with other nintendo games.

and thats all the wii u needs. both games are are on the way for gotg in the specific genre.



fatslob-:O on 14 February 2014
JoeTheBro said:
curl-6 said:
JoeTheBro said:

The Wii U game looks like a "hack." However the Wii U one certainly isn't. Did you see the PS3 water simulation video I posted? Fluid simulations are pretty easy if they can use 90% of the system's power. If I was fatslob my point wouldn't be that the Wii U can't do fluids, but that it can't do them while doing other things.

What do you mean by a "hack"? A precomputed animation? If that were the case, how would it account for blocks falling different places according to player actions? And then there's The Conduit, where you can choose where in the pool to shoot to trigger the rippling simulation.

It's basically a cloth simulation instead of a fluid simulation. Only the surface of the water exists. Ripples and everything work fine, but the surface can't break like with real water. Because of this splashes and the like use additional effects. It's very standard.

In this part of Uncharted 3, the ocean, the pool, and the water at the end all use this technique.

They worked great for last gen games.

Moving forward though with the power of next gen we can/will/might switch to actual fluid simulations like this:

This isn't a pretty demo or 100% what I'm talking about, but it shows how this water is a volume and not a surface. It has ripples like the water in uncharted, but it also has folds and dynamic splashes. Like real-time verse pre-baked lighting this could become the standard as we move forward.

@Bold Yay you may have described on what I was going about.

I don't think we'll be seeing real time eulerian water unless it's some indie puzzle game. Using a much bigger volume for things such as rivers would be hard. 



JoeTheBro on 14 February 2014
fatslob-:O said:
JoeTheBro said:

It's basically a cloth simulation instead of a fluid simulation. Only the surface of the water exists. Ripples and everything work fine, but the surface can't break like with real water. Because of this splashes and the like use additional effects. It's very standard.

In this part of Uncharted 3, the ocean, the pool, and the water at the end all use this technique.

They worked great for last gen games.

Moving forward though with the power of next gen we can/will/might switch to actual fluid simulations like this:

This isn't a pretty demo or 100% what I'm talking about, but it shows how this water is a volume and not a surface. It has ripples like the water in uncharted, but it also has folds and dynamic splashes. Like real-time verse pre-baked lighting this could become the standard as we move forward.

@Bold Yay you may have described on what I was going about.

I don't think we'll be seeing real time eulerian water unless it's some indie puzzle game. Using a much bigger volume for things such as rivers would be hard. 

Yeah it sounded like what you were getting at.

With next gen we'll have to wait and see. Both Quantum Break and the Order are making every single object a soft body, so I have high hopes for fluid simulations becoming popular too. Really we just need to program solutions that allow dynamic quality. Basically tessellation for fluid simulations.

I'm messing with this stuff, but yes it's just for some indie puzzle game lol.



Links

fatslob-:O on 14 February 2014
JoeTheBro said:
fatslob-:O said:
JoeTheBro said:

It's basically a cloth simulation instead of a fluid simulation. Only the surface of the water exists. Ripples and everything work fine, but the surface can't break like with real water. Because of this splashes and the like use additional effects. It's very standard.

In this part of Uncharted 3, the ocean, the pool, and the water at the end all use this technique.

They worked great for last gen games.

Moving forward though with the power of next gen we can/will/might switch to actual fluid simulations like this:

This isn't a pretty demo or 100% what I'm talking about, but it shows how this water is a volume and not a surface. It has ripples like the water in uncharted, but it also has folds and dynamic splashes. Like real-time verse pre-baked lighting this could become the standard as we move forward.

@Bold Yay you may have described on what I was going about.

I don't think we'll be seeing real time eulerian water unless it's some indie puzzle game. Using a much bigger volume for things such as rivers would be hard. 

Yeah it sounded like what you were getting at.

With next gen we'll have to wait and see. Both Quantum Break and the Order are making every single object a soft body, so I have high hopes for fluid simulations becoming popular too. Really we just need to program solutions that allow dynamic quality. Basically tessellation for fluid simulations.

I'm messing with this stuff, but yes it's just for some indie puzzle game lol.

Here's how I should have described it to save some troubles ... The WII U along with last gen consoles CAN'T do high volume SPH simulation at an acceptable framerate.

I have a tough time believing that the X1 and the PS4 will be able to pull off large rivers ...