By using this site, you agree to our Privacy Policy and our Terms of Use. Close

Forums - Gaming - x86-64 vs x64

walsufnir on 08 February 2014

Cobretti2 said:


Fuck me the guy is trying to learn something and the so called computer experts are dissing him for wanting to learn.

Help him understand where he is right or wrong and elaborate where it needs to be.

Sorry OP haven't kept up with tech to give you an answer.


Exactly. Especially the first posters aren't experts, either ;)

 

But I see Pemalite was 14 minutes here before me so I don't have to answer OP ;)



Around the Network
walsufnir on 08 February 2014
Pemalite said:
jack100 said:

I just watch the Wii U "Five" episode from ZyroXZ2, not sure if that is your name on this forum, but good job.

Anyways, as I forgot he said that the ps4 and xbox 1 uses a x86 prcessor, yet I remember that you can ONLY use about 4 gigs on RAM, and that includes GPU RAM.  So I was thinking, do they stick 8 gigs on RAM into each console and 4 gigs NEVER gets used. I remember this cause I had a 12 gig PC and had xp 32bit and I could only see like 4 gigs, so I had to upgrade to a 64 bit operating system.  So I was wondering how do they use 8 gigs each if x86 can only use 4 gigs.

I did a little research and found the x86-64, which theorically see 128 GIGS on RAM.  Of course I was confused a little since I haven't done hardware stuff in a while.  More reseatrch revealed that x84-62 uses twice as much CPU power as a X64 processor since you constantly have to swap bits in the RAM on x86-64.

So doesn't that mean the PS4 and the xbox 1, which has 8 cores, with 2 gigs reserved for the OS and 6 cores left.  Isn't the 6 cores be equivalent to 3 cores since x86-64 has to use twice as much power?  If it was an x64 architecture, then it could maximize all 6 cores whereas x86-64 uses much more power and can be cut in half.  Also if they want to maximize the CPU power the DEV eventaully have to learn x64 platform at least for the next generation......which they now won't learn.

JUst ranting, maybe I'm forgetting something.  Just my 2 cents.

Converesly, Windows 32bit can address larger amounts of memory than that via the PAE extension which stands for Physical Address Extension, basically it extends the 32bit address space to 36bit, 40bit, 48bit and potentially 52bit.
48bit for instance would allow a 32bit PC to address 256 Terabytes of Ram.

 

There are only few PAE enabled Windows available. Well, to be correct, many have it enabled but are intentionally limited:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension#Microsoft_Windows



fatslob-:O on 08 February 2014
Pemalite said:


As for x86-64. It is x86. It is also x64. They are one in the same.
x64 is an extension to x86, Intel was ironically going to push IA64 via Itanium at one point, which would have been horrible for the entire market in more ways than one.

It brings back memories where AMD processors used to be good.



Pemalite on 08 February 2014
walsufnir said:
Pemalite said:
jack100 said:

I just watch the Wii U "Five" episode from ZyroXZ2, not sure if that is your name on this forum, but good job.

Anyways, as I forgot he said that the ps4 and xbox 1 uses a x86 prcessor, yet I remember that you can ONLY use about 4 gigs on RAM, and that includes GPU RAM.  So I was thinking, do they stick 8 gigs on RAM into each console and 4 gigs NEVER gets used. I remember this cause I had a 12 gig PC and had xp 32bit and I could only see like 4 gigs, so I had to upgrade to a 64 bit operating system.  So I was wondering how do they use 8 gigs each if x86 can only use 4 gigs.

I did a little research and found the x86-64, which theorically see 128 GIGS on RAM.  Of course I was confused a little since I haven't done hardware stuff in a while.  More reseatrch revealed that x84-62 uses twice as much CPU power as a X64 processor since you constantly have to swap bits in the RAM on x86-64.

So doesn't that mean the PS4 and the xbox 1, which has 8 cores, with 2 gigs reserved for the OS and 6 cores left.  Isn't the 6 cores be equivalent to 3 cores since x86-64 has to use twice as much power?  If it was an x64 architecture, then it could maximize all 6 cores whereas x86-64 uses much more power and can be cut in half.  Also if they want to maximize the CPU power the DEV eventaully have to learn x64 platform at least for the next generation......which they now won't learn.

JUst ranting, maybe I'm forgetting something.  Just my 2 cents.

Converesly, Windows 32bit can address larger amounts of memory than that via the PAE extension which stands for Physical Address Extension, basically it extends the 32bit address space to 36bit, 40bit, 48bit and potentially 52bit.
48bit for instance would allow a 32bit PC to address 256 Terabytes of Ram.

 

There are only few PAE enabled Windows available. Well, to be correct, many have it enabled but are intentionally limited:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension#Microsoft_Windows

Not to mention it can create "unforseen" problems, hence why it wasn't so widely used in the PC space.
But it is possible and not really a consiquence in a fixed platform such as a console if they were to hypothetically use it, they don't have decades worth of backwards compatability to worry about.

The PS4 and Xbox One though would indeed be using 64bit, because of the extra registers and such.

fatslob-:O said:
Pemalite said:


As for x86-64. It is x86. It is also x64. They are one in the same.
x64 is an extension to x86, Intel was ironically going to push IA64 via Itanium at one point, which would have been horrible for the entire market in more ways than one.

It brings back memories where AMD processors used to be good.


Sure does!
Mostly only because of Intels own failings, pushing expensive RDRAM, going for clockspeed over efficiency per clock. etc'.




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

walsufnir on 08 February 2014
Pemalite said:
walsufnir said:
Pemalite said:
jack100 said:

I just watch the Wii U "Five" episode from ZyroXZ2, not sure if that is your name on this forum, but good job.

Anyways, as I forgot he said that the ps4 and xbox 1 uses a x86 prcessor, yet I remember that you can ONLY use about 4 gigs on RAM, and that includes GPU RAM.  So I was thinking, do they stick 8 gigs on RAM into each console and 4 gigs NEVER gets used. I remember this cause I had a 12 gig PC and had xp 32bit and I could only see like 4 gigs, so I had to upgrade to a 64 bit operating system.  So I was wondering how do they use 8 gigs each if x86 can only use 4 gigs.

I did a little research and found the x86-64, which theorically see 128 GIGS on RAM.  Of course I was confused a little since I haven't done hardware stuff in a while.  More reseatrch revealed that x84-62 uses twice as much CPU power as a X64 processor since you constantly have to swap bits in the RAM on x86-64.

So doesn't that mean the PS4 and the xbox 1, which has 8 cores, with 2 gigs reserved for the OS and 6 cores left.  Isn't the 6 cores be equivalent to 3 cores since x86-64 has to use twice as much power?  If it was an x64 architecture, then it could maximize all 6 cores whereas x86-64 uses much more power and can be cut in half.  Also if they want to maximize the CPU power the DEV eventaully have to learn x64 platform at least for the next generation......which they now won't learn.

JUst ranting, maybe I'm forgetting something.  Just my 2 cents.

Converesly, Windows 32bit can address larger amounts of memory than that via the PAE extension which stands for Physical Address Extension, basically it extends the 32bit address space to 36bit, 40bit, 48bit and potentially 52bit.
48bit for instance would allow a 32bit PC to address 256 Terabytes of Ram.

 

There are only few PAE enabled Windows available. Well, to be correct, many have it enabled but are intentionally limited:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension#Microsoft_Windows

Not to mention it can create "unforseen" problems, hence why it wasn't so widely used in the PC space.
But it is possible and not really a consiquence in a fixed platform such as a console if they were to hypothetically use it, they don't have decades worth of backwards compatability to worry about.

The PS4 and Xbox One though would indeed be using 64bit, because of the extra registers and such.

 

We ran a lot of Linux servers with PAE-enabled kernels for several years, worked without any problems. Not sure about Windows, though...

 



Around the Network
fatslob-:O on 08 February 2014
Pemalite said:
walsufnir said:
Pemalite said:
jack100 said:

I just watch the Wii U "Five" episode from ZyroXZ2, not sure if that is your name on this forum, but good job.

Anyways, as I forgot he said that the ps4 and xbox 1 uses a x86 prcessor, yet I remember that you can ONLY use about 4 gigs on RAM, and that includes GPU RAM.  So I was thinking, do they stick 8 gigs on RAM into each console and 4 gigs NEVER gets used. I remember this cause I had a 12 gig PC and had xp 32bit and I could only see like 4 gigs, so I had to upgrade to a 64 bit operating system.  So I was wondering how do they use 8 gigs each if x86 can only use 4 gigs.

I did a little research and found the x86-64, which theorically see 128 GIGS on RAM.  Of course I was confused a little since I haven't done hardware stuff in a while.  More reseatrch revealed that x84-62 uses twice as much CPU power as a X64 processor since you constantly have to swap bits in the RAM on x86-64.

So doesn't that mean the PS4 and the xbox 1, which has 8 cores, with 2 gigs reserved for the OS and 6 cores left.  Isn't the 6 cores be equivalent to 3 cores since x86-64 has to use twice as much power?  If it was an x64 architecture, then it could maximize all 6 cores whereas x86-64 uses much more power and can be cut in half.  Also if they want to maximize the CPU power the DEV eventaully have to learn x64 platform at least for the next generation......which they now won't learn.

JUst ranting, maybe I'm forgetting something.  Just my 2 cents.

Converesly, Windows 32bit can address larger amounts of memory than that via the PAE extension which stands for Physical Address Extension, basically it extends the 32bit address space to 36bit, 40bit, 48bit and potentially 52bit.
48bit for instance would allow a 32bit PC to address 256 Terabytes of Ram.

 

There are only few PAE enabled Windows available. Well, to be correct, many have it enabled but are intentionally limited:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physical_Address_Extension#Microsoft_Windows

Not to mention it can create "unforseen" problems, hence why it wasn't so widely used in the PC space.
But it is possible and not really a consiquence in a fixed platform such as a console if they were to hypothetically use it, they don't have decades worth of backwards compatability to worry about.

The PS4 and Xbox One though would indeed be using 64bit, because of the extra registers and such.

fatslob-:O said:
Pemalite said:


As for x86-64. It is x86. It is also x64. They are one in the same.
x64 is an extension to x86, Intel was ironically going to push IA64 via Itanium at one point, which would have been horrible for the entire market in more ways than one.

It brings back memories where AMD processors used to be good.


Sure does!
Mostly only because of Intels own failings, pushing expensive RDRAM, going for clockspeed over efficiency per clock. etc'.

Rambus LOL ... (They could possibly win the award for being the worst patent trolls ever!) 



Pemalite on 08 February 2014
fatslob-:O said:

Rambus LOL ... (They could possibly win the award for being the worst patent trolls ever!) 


Indeed.

What annoys me is that Rambus patented obvious patents on memory technologies and forced the entire DRAM market to pay licensing fee's, so we the consumers have to pay extra for that cost, be it mobile phones, games consoles or a PC, heck even your smart TV, all has money going to Rambus, the crooks.

It holds back development, which is what the patent system is designed to prevent, but fails to accomplish.

Thankfully Intel's push to make Rambus the only memory manufacturer on the PC, backfired, thanks to the likes of Via, SiS et-all releasing SDR based chipsets. :)

walsufnir said:

 

We ran a lot of Linux servers with PAE-enabled kernels for several years, worked without any problems. Not sure about Windows, though...

 

Linux is a very different kettle of fish, when I tried out PAE years ago when building a home server, Intel Drivers would throw a fit in Windows NT server, I assumed at the time (which could be wrong) was because it was conflicting with intels dynamic-memory allocation for it's IGP's.





www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

fatslob-:O on 08 February 2014
Pemalite said:
fatslob-:O said:

Rambus LOL ... (They could possibly win the award for being the worst patent trolls ever!) 


Indeed.

What annoys me is that Rambus patented obvious patents on memory technologies and forced the entire DRAM market to pay licensing fee's, so we the consumers have to pay extra for that cost, be it mobile phones, games consoles or a PC, heck even your smart TV, all has money going to Rambus, the crooks.

It holds back development, which is what the patent system is designed to prevent, but fails to accomplish.

Thankfully Intel's push to make Rambus the only memory manufacturer on the PC, backfired, thanks to the likes of Via, SiS et-all releasing SDR based chipsets. :)

I think their last lawsuit was with nvidia or so ? 



Pemalite on 08 February 2014
fatslob-:O said:
Pemalite said:
fatslob-:O said:

Rambus LOL ... (They could possibly win the award for being the worst patent trolls ever!) 


Indeed.

What annoys me is that Rambus patented obvious patents on memory technologies and forced the entire DRAM market to pay licensing fee's, so we the consumers have to pay extra for that cost, be it mobile phones, games consoles or a PC, heck even your smart TV, all has money going to Rambus, the crooks.

It holds back development, which is what the patent system is designed to prevent, but fails to accomplish.

Thankfully Intel's push to make Rambus the only memory manufacturer on the PC, backfired, thanks to the likes of Via, SiS et-all releasing SDR based chipsets. :)

I think their last lawsuit was with nvidia or so ? 


Nah, Micron in December 2013, they finally settled.




www.youtube.com/@Pemalite

pokoko on 08 February 2014
walsufnir said:

Cobretti2 said:


Fuck me the guy is trying to learn something and the so called computer experts are dissing him for wanting to learn.

Help him understand where he is right or wrong and elaborate where it needs to be.

Sorry OP haven't kept up with tech to give you an answer.


Exactly. Especially the first posters aren't experts, either ;)

 

But I see Pemalite was 14 minutes here before me so I don't have to answer OP ;)

I might not be an expert but at least I tried.  No one else was answering at the time.