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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Iwata: Our next system will “absorb the Wii U architecture adequately”

padib said:
Soundwave said:
padib said:
Soundwave said:

Dual screens are done. Even the 2DS doesn't technically have two screens (it's just one screen with a plastic divider over it .... you wanna know why? Because dual screens don't have any cost benefit anymore). 

I really don't get where you get this from. The dual-screen setup is going nowhere as far as we know.

I will literally eat my hat if the next Nintendo handheld has two seperate screens. It sucks for battery, its pointless (as large mutlitouch panels are cheap as dirt), and even the 2DS is really now a single touch panel. 

Whether it's two screens or one is immaterial, like you say. The 2DS is a single screen with a plastic hider.

However, the functionality of displaying two images at once is there to stay, and you can be the U's gamepad functionality will be integrated in the home console successor at least as an accessory (like the motion+ is to the U).

I doubt it. It's not 2004 anymore. 

There's a reason why most (sane) display setups only have a person look at one central display ... because humans aren't adapted to look at multiple displays at the same time. It's pointless. It's also one of the reasons the Wii U is a giant flop -- no Nintendo, it's not that people don't "get" the idea, it's that people recoginize that it's a pretty freaking stupid one. I remember walking past a Wii U kiosk and hearing a girl exclaim to her boyfriend "what screen am I supposed to look at? This is dumb". 

Dual screens made sense in 2004, and Nintendo's been bound to it because of the success of the DS, but they're now liberated to use more modern display setups because the 3DS/Wii U are not having the success they would have liked. Gimme one big display for my Mario level to have its art work shine instead of one smaller screen for that and one entire half screen wasted on a pointless "press here for flower power up!".



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Soundwave said:
padib said:
Soundwave said:
padib said:
Soundwave said:

Dual screens are done. Even the 2DS doesn't technically have two screens (it's just one screen with a plastic divider over it .... you wanna know why? Because dual screens don't have any cost benefit anymore). 

I really don't get where you get this from. The dual-screen setup is going nowhere as far as we know.

I will literally eat my hat if the next Nintendo handheld has two seperate screens. It sucks for battery, its pointless (as large mutlitouch panels are cheap as dirt), and even the 2DS is really now a single touch panel. 

Whether it's two screens or one is immaterial, like you say. The 2DS is a single screen with a plastic hider.

However, the functionality of displaying two images at once is there to stay, and you can be the U's gamepad functionality will be integrated in the home console successor at least as an accessory (like the motion+ is to the U).

I doubt it. It's not 2004 anymore. 

There's a reason why most (sane) display setups only have a person look at one central display ... because humans aren't adapted to look at multiple displays at the same time. It's pointless. It's also one of the reasons the Wii U is a giant flop -- no Nintendo, it's not that people don't "get" the idea, it's that people recoginize that it's a pretty freaking stupid one. I remember walking past a Wii U kiosk and hearing a girl exclaim to her boyfriend "what screen am I supposed to look at? This is dumb". 

Dual screens made sense in 2004, and Nintendo's been bound to it because of the success of the DS, but they're now liberated to use more modern display setups because the 3DS/Wii U are not having the success they would have liked. Gimme one big display for my Mario level to have its art work shine instead of one smaller screen for that and one entire half screen wasted on a pointless "press here for flower power up!".


Their recent comments beg to differ. Everything they've been doing points to dual screens, weather you agree with the dicision or not.



padib said:
Soundwave said:

I doubt it. It's not 2004 anymore. 

There's a reason why most (sane) display setups only have a person look at one central display ... because humans aren't adapted to look at multiple displays at the same time. It's pointless. It made sense in 2004, and Nintendo's been bound to it because of the success of the DS, but they're now liberated to use more modern display setups because the 3DS/Wii U are not having the success they would have liked. 

I honestly doubt it. They have made use of dual screens and from a gaming perspective it makes more sense. It doesn't have to be two separate screens, like you say, but it could be a tablet display that displays two distinct images at a time.

Either way it doesn't matter because I see the next systems being completely interoperable not only from a platform perspective, but also from an input perspective (compatible with a variety of configurations).


Can you even give one logical benefit that two displays give over just having one display? Maybe Nintendo is so much smarter than Apple and Google or something? That line of thinking is probably what's led them to three straight years of losses ... oddball decisions for the sake of backwards compaibility and just wanting to be different "because Nintendo". 

It wouldn't help a cross platform set up at all ... the handheld version has two screens, and the home console has 1 screen ... that's not promoting unity at all, it's another headache for developers who are already tired of Nintendo's bullsh*t (lets be honest) to have to figure out. 

It's not even good for the display of the game ... if you have a chip that can generate great 3D graphics, that give it a freaking big LCD that can use the entire real estate of the screen to show it off ... not some awkward split where the top screen has the main graphics and the bottom screen shows you how many lives you left. 

The Wii and DS era is over ... the Wii U and 3DS are the end of it, consumers are moving on and Nintendo is going to have to as well. 



padib said:
Soundwave said:

Can you even give one logical benefit that two displays give over just having one display? Maybe Nintendo is so much smarter than Apple and Google or something? That line of thinking is probably what's led them to three straight years of losses ... oddball decisions for the sake of backwards compaibility and just wanting to be different "because Nintendo". 

It wouldn't help a cross platform set up at all ... the handheld version has two screens, and the home console has 1 screen ... that's not promoting unity at all, it's another headache for developers who are already Nintendo's bullsh*t (lets be honest) to have to figure out. 

1 reason:

For some games, you don't want to hide the action with your hands. It's more adequate to use a separate display for the touch action.

Also, keep in mind the stylus has certain advantages that no iOS device makes use of, and only a rare exception of Android devices do (Samsung Galaxy Note).


Multitouch can use stylus just fine like the Galaxy Note that you mentioned. Most tablet makers don't include a stylus because most consumers don't want one. There's no technical issue to it. 



padib said:
Soundwave said:

Multitouch can use stylus just fine like the Galaxy Note that you mentioned. Most tablet makers don't include a stylus because most consumers don't want one. There's no technical issue to it. 

It was an example. What I meant to say is that the Android and iOS apps are not designed for stylus use, and so don't optimise for it. The DS was optimized for gaming and stylus use. That ended in the DS bottom and upper screens.

The advantage I mentioned remains. No screen cluttering with your hands.

As I said though, I see Nintendo implementing a uniformist approach, which would allow for touch as well as stylus as well as dual-screen or single-screen gaming (like 3D World's touch capabilities on off-tv play).

The DS is done it's yesterdays news, Nintendo can milk the 3DS, but the next product needs to be something for today, not "this made sense 10 years ago". 

10 years ago in the modern tech world might as well be 50 years ago. All these companies that have tried to be smarter than Apple and try to dictate to consumers how they should use their tech rather than just giving the people what they want are now eating a giant slice of humble pie, and Nintendo certain is in that group. 



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daredevil.shark said:

 

Iwata on integrating handheld/console teams, next system will “absorb the Wii U architecture adequately”, more

Posted under News, Wii U
1 hour ago by Brian (@NE_Brian)
Tagged: Satoru Iwata, top

Satoru Iwata delivered some incredibly insightful comments as to what Nintendo has planned for its future hardware during an investor briefing Q&A last week.

As many of you know, Nintendo combined its console and handheld teams in 2013. Thanks to “vast technological advances, it became possible to achieve a fair degree of architectural integration.”

Iwata says that the integration of the two teams can help overcome some technical difficulties. He mentioned, as an example, that it currently takes “a huge amount of effort” to port Wii games to 3DS, and 3DS titles to Wii U. “If the transition of software from platform to platform can be made simpler, this will help solve the problem of game shortages in the launch periods of new platforms,” he said.

Integrating the console and handheld teams will also allow Nintendo to avoid situations in which it previously “ended up developing a system that was completely different from its predecessor.” Aside from the transition from GameCube to Wii, “all the other systems required ground-up effort.”

Iwata left a tease as for what’s to come, stating:

In this perspective, while we are only going to be able to start this with the next system, it will become important for us to accurately take advantage of what we have done with the Wii U architecture. It of course does not mean that we are going to use exactly the same architecture as Wii U, but we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately. When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems.

Be sure to head past the break for Iwata’s comments in full, as there’s quite a bit more he shared that would be silly to summarize further.

 

Last year Nintendo reorganized its R&D divisions and integrated the handheld device and home console development teams into one division under Mr. Takeda. Previously, our handheld video game devices and home video game consoles had to be developed separately as the technological requirements of each system, whether it was battery-powered or connected to a power supply, differed greatly, leading to completely different architectures and, hence, divergent methods of software development. However, because of vast technological advances, it became possible to achieve a fair degree of architectural integration. We discussed this point, and we ultimately concluded that it was the right time to integrate the two teams.

For example, currently it requires a huge amount of effort to port Wii software to Nintendo 3DS because not only their resolutions but also the methods of software development are entirely different. The same thing happens when we try to port Nintendo 3DS software to Wii U. If the transition of software from platform to platform can be made simpler, this will help solve the problem of game shortages in the launch periods of new platforms. Also, as technological advances took place at such a dramatic rate, and we were forced to choose the best technologies for video games under cost restrictions, each time we developed a new platform, we always ended up developing a system that was completely different from its predecessor. The only exception was when we went from Nintendo GameCube to Wii. Though the controller changed completely, the actual computer and graphics chips were developed very smoothly as they were very similar to those of Nintendo GameCube, but all the other systems required ground-up effort. However, I think that we no longer need this kind of effort under the current circumstances. In this perspective, while we are only going to be able to start this with the next system, it will become important for us to accurately take advantage of what we have done with the Wii U architecture. It of course does not mean that we are going to use exactly the same architecture as Wii U, but we are going to create a system that can absorb the Wii U architecture adequately. When this happens, home consoles and handheld devices will no longer be completely different, and they will become like brothers in a family of systems.

Still, I am not sure if the form factor (the size and configuration of the hardware) will be integrated. In contrast, the number of form factors might increase. Currently, we can only provide two form factors because if we had three or four different architectures, we would face serious shortages of software on every platform. To cite a specific case, Apple is able to release smart devices with various form factors one after another because there is one way of programming adopted by all platforms. Apple has a common platform called iOS. Another example is Android. Though there are various models, Android does not face software shortages because there is one common way of programming on the Android platform that works with various models. The point is, Nintendo platforms should be like those two examples. Whether we will ultimately need just one device will be determined by what consumers demand in the future, and that is not something we know at the moment. However, we are hoping to change and correct the situation in which we develop games for different platforms individually and sometimes disappoint consumers with game shortages as we attempt to move from one platform to another, and we believe that we will be able to deliver tangible results in the future.

Source: http://nintendoeverything.com/iwata-on-integrating-handheldconsole-teams-next-system-will-absorb-the-wii-u-architecture-adequately-more/


In other words, he confirms everything I predicted in my Nintendo QOL thread.

http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=177532&page=1#



So basically... hold off on a Wii U if you were considering it, the successor with backwards compatibility will be here in a year or two.



padib said:
Soundwave said:

The DS is done it's yesterdays news, Nintendo can milk the 3DS, but the next product needs to be something for today, not "this made sense 10 years ago". 

10 years ago in the modern tech world might as well be 50 years ago. All these companies that have tried to be smarter than Apple and try to dictate to consumers how they should use their tech rather than just giving the people what they want are now eating a giant slice of humble pie, and Nintendo certain is in that group. 

As I said, Nintendo is not apple, they make dedicated game consoles. The DS is the result of usability tests they spent money designing. If they see use for it they will keep it, if not they will not. End of story.

Bottom line, Nintendo imho will make their next platforms open to many options, much like the U is today. That is our pattern.

LOL, they need to stay away from whatever the f*ck it is they're doing with the Wii U. 

Here's a sobering fact for them -- more kids in the next three years, probably by a factor of 3-5x (and that might be generous to Nintendo) will be introduced and hooked on gaming through their parents iPad/Android tablet over a Nintendo 3DS or DS. And certainly not that gong show that's the Wii U. 

Now Nintendo can either keep doing their own brand of "aren't we cute, we're Nintendo" schtick and become irrelevant or they can wake up and make a product that's relevant to people's lives in the year 2014 and beyond. 

That may sound harsh, but really it's not even half as harsh as the market conditions out there. Don't come to a gun fight with a butter knife Nintendo. To be fair to them, I think this last holiday season was a hard, sobering wake up call to them and in a way the whole QoL thing is an admission on their part that they can't sell that product on their home consoles anymore, they need to create a new product line divorced from their half-poisoned existing hardware philosophy to even have a chance. 



padib said:
Soundwave said:

LOL, they need to stay away from whatever the f*ck it is they're doing with the Wii U. 

Here's a sobering fact for them -- more kids in the next three years, probably by a factor of 3-5x (and that might be generous to Nintendo) will be introduced and hooked on gaming through their parents iPad/Android tablet over a Nintendo 3DS or DS. And certainly not that gong show that's the Wii U. 

Now Nintendo can either keep doing their own brand of "aren't we cute, we're Nintendo" schtick and become irrelevant or they can wake up and make a product that's relevant to people's lives in the year 2014 and beyond. 

That may sound harsh, but really it's not even half as harsh as the market conditions out there. Don't come to a gun fight with a butter knife Nintendo. To be fair to them, I think this last holiday season was a hard, sobering wake up call to them and in a way the whole QoL thing is an admission on their part that they can't sell that product on their home consoles anymore, they need to create a new product line divorced from their half-poisoned existing hardware philosophy to even have a chance. 

I honestly don't get what this has to do with anything :P What I meant about the U is that it gives players options (play with mote, play on tv, play on screen, etc)


Which is part of the problem. Keep it simple, don't needlessly give a consumer an overly complicated, or perhaps more specifically an overly convulted product. 

The Wii U controller is basically the Homer Simpson car of game products -- and if you're too young to get that reference it's a joke about a monstrosity of a car that Homer created that basically had every option (and the kitchen sink) thrown into it. 



Hmmm. Nintendo. You got me to buy your Wii U because of Tropical Freeze and 3dMW. But your issue is getting 3rd party support. That's why your console is struggling.

I fear concentrating on unifying handheld and console architecture is a different mistake but one that will alienate 3rd parties still. The Wii U would ave 3rd party support if it was more inline with the power of Xbox and Playstation. Then porting would be simple. But my worry here is using handheld architecture in the next console will only further increase the power gap. Making the existing problem worse.

How many handheld gamers will want to repurchase the same game on a brand new console?