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Forums - Gaming - I don't get why there's such a big power difference.

FlamingWeazel said:
Xenostar said:
The power difference is exactly what you would expect on PC between a 7770 and a 7870 there is no magic that will close that gap.

Even the Tomb raider frame rates are directly comparable between the PC version running on those graphics cards.

The gap is actually bigger in tomb raider, x1 at times drops to 900p, has lower resolution effects, worse AF, etc.....and still has lower fps.


TR on X1 has dynamic resolution switching then?



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areason said:
sales2099 said:

Don Mattrick dropped the ball. He systematically screwed the Xbox brand with his media approach over gaming.

Any business expert can tell you he paid no attention to what Sony was doing in terms of specs, price, and PR approach. Hope he rots at Zynga. Now we gotta spend the gen waiting it out, hopefully giving MS the ephiphany Sony got with PS3 and make the successor what we want.


It is clear with microsoft's strategies throughout the past five years that they would rather create an overall balanced entertainement system, then a console with other usages. I don't think they are going to turn tides, you can tell by their emphasis on kinect and tv apps as well as the next quantic dream game having a possible tv series. The x1 is still a very good gaming console, and MS are giving in terms of games what they have always done, as well as new ips. 

Yup...pretty much after Peter Moore left and Don Mattrick took the helm this trend happened. I mean at the time people like me played it down but honestly, offcourse we would have liked the exclusives to take the spotlight from 2009, 2011-2013 (always viewed 2010 as a excellent 360 year for games).

The policy reversals Don put in place is allready a good sign of things to come. Now MS is PR focused more then ever, with twitter accounts answering questions and being more open in general then they ever were before.

Things like Kinect and Quantic having tv roots is harder to drop. Their foundations run deeper then things that could be fixed with a simple firmware update. I imagine enough X1's have to be sold to justify the kinect R&D before deciding to drop it to make X1 more competitive.



Xbox: Best hardware, Game Pass best value, best BC, more 1st party genres and multiplayer titles. 

 

You have to go back to the early goals of the projects for "next gen" gaming machines of each company.

MS wanted 8GB of RAM no matter what and they were just off the buzz of the release of the original Kinect, so they picked DDR3 + ESRAM as a realistic goal (around 2010 probably) then they built around that with AMD, assuming 8GB of RAM would be important enough to give them an advantage in games. MS also added a few extra processors to aleviate the CPU and GPU limitations (the move engines).

 - The problem is that the ESRAM located on the CPU/GPU die takes a lot of space that could have been used for a faster GPU (like the PS4 has) the problem is that the DDR3 memory would be too slow to feed a faster GPU anyway, so they need some sort of buffer... 

Sony wanted a fast GPU with a pool of very fast memory (along the other tweaks they requested from AMD on the GPU) at first rumors hinted at 2GB, because of the high initial price of GDDR5 memory, then rumors started circulating that it would have 4GB ... and they announced the machine with 8GB last Februrary, because yields and price permitted it

Thus Sony created a machine that would release at the same time as zero hardware deficiencies as far as games are concerned, the Sony and MS engineers are probably just as good as each other, however the people who made the decisions of what they wanted in the consoles asked for different things and we got the desired results on both case.

The xbox one is more a business model than a hardware platform... it's not a consumer product, but a money printing machine for MS... that's how it feels anyway.



Jizz_Beard_thePirate said:

...
On top of that, ps4 is all gddr5 vs xbox one is ddr3 + small amount of edram... Gddr5 is faster than ddr3 but eDRAM is way faster than both however, the x1 only has a small amount of eDRAM to work with plus the developers have to use it properly to make it effective which is why the ps4 is overall faster... (I might be a little off somewhere though)
....


Where did you get the idea that Esram is way faster than GDDR5?  Esram has a 102 GB Bandwidth one way, although it can be used to write and read simultaneously, which implies a Maximum of 204 GB Bandwidth. Well, this is VERY theoretical because you will not have read and write simultaneously 100% of the time, and as Anandtech suggested, the expected theoretical maximum is around 170 GB/s

GDDR5 has a 176 GB/s Bandwidth, and with some overhead this nets to around 172 GB. Well, for all practical purposes Esram and GDDR5 have similar speed. So, no Esram is NOT faster than GDDR5 at all. But it has one advantage; very low latency. Without that, 32 MB of ESRAM would be completely meaningless, as it would be too small. So "loading and unloading data" is very quick.

This is crucial for XB1 because it's trying to compensate the sluggish DDR3, since it will load and unload data again & again (with its tiny size), especially using compression technics.  The latency on GDDR5, on the other hand, is not that important, because once you load the data, and you can fit it all, you don't have to unload it until it's delivered.



Playstation 5 vs XBox Series Market Share Estimates

Regional Analysis  (only MS and Sony Consoles)
Europe     => XB1 : 23-24 % vs PS4 : 76-77%
N. America => XB1 :  49-52% vs PS4 : 48-51%
Global     => XB1 :  32-34% vs PS4 : 66-68%

Sales Estimations for 8th Generation Consoles

Next Gen Consoles Impressions and Estimates

Xenostar said:
FlamingWeazel said:
Xenostar said:
The power difference is exactly what you would expect on PC between a 7770 and a 7870 there is no magic that will close that gap.

Even the Tomb raider frame rates are directly comparable between the PC version running on those graphics cards.

The gap is actually bigger in tomb raider, x1 at times drops to 900p, has lower resolution effects, worse AF, etc.....and still has lower fps.


TR on X1 has dynamic resolution switching then?

Yes check the Tr performance thread.



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The gap will shrink and we will be left just like the last generation. The PS3 came out and had subpar versions of games and over time they started looking practically like the 360 version. I expect the same for this generation.



dandd said:
The gap will shrink and we will be left just like the last generation. The PS3 came out and had subpar versions of games and over time they started looking practically like the 360 version. I expect the same for this generation.


No, you're wrong the PS3 had the power to shrink the gap x1 does not. Ps4 has all advanategs this time, 360 actualyl ahd a better gpu and memory last gen. You can expect it but it's not goign to happen. Nothng can offset a 40% more powerfull gpu, if that was the case PC gamers would not upgrade theit GPU's. This has been rebunked in this thread already and is just wishfull thinking. The gap is actually going to get worse. The power gap is way bigger then last gen were PS3 and 360 has different advantages and dis-advantages. Technology is technology it isn;t magic.



dandd said:
The gap will shrink and we will be left just like the last generation. The PS3 came out and had subpar versions of games and over time they started looking practically like the 360 version. I expect the same for this generation.


not a chance power difference is alot larger this gen



sales2099 said:
areason said:
sales2099 said:

Don Mattrick dropped the ball. He systematically screwed the Xbox brand with his media approach over gaming.

Any business expert can tell you he paid no attention to what Sony was doing in terms of specs, price, and PR approach. Hope he rots at Zynga. Now we gotta spend the gen waiting it out, hopefully giving MS the ephiphany Sony got with PS3 and make the successor what we want.


It is clear with microsoft's strategies throughout the past five years that they would rather create an overall balanced entertainement system, then a console with other usages. I don't think they are going to turn tides, you can tell by their emphasis on kinect and tv apps as well as the next quantic dream game having a possible tv series. The x1 is still a very good gaming console, and MS are giving in terms of games what they have always done, as well as new ips. 

Yup...pretty much after Peter Moore left and Don Mattrick took the helm this trend happened. I mean at the time people like me played it down but honestly, offcourse we would have liked the exclusives to take the spotlight from 2009, 2011-2013 (always viewed 2010 as a excellent 360 year for games).

The policy reversals Don put in place is allready a good sign of things to come. Now MS is PR focused more then ever, with twitter accounts answering questions and being more open in general then they ever were before.

Things like Kinect and Quantic having tv roots is harder to drop. Their foundations run deeper then things that could be fixed with a simple firmware update. I imagine enough X1's have to be sold to justify the kinect R&D before deciding to drop it to make X1 more competitive.

You clearly don;t know how companies work. mattrick/Peter, whoever was not a one man show in a huge project as big as a console launch, he had to get approval right up the chain and everyone had to be on board, from everyone in hardware, software, engineers, executives... Stop trying to blame 1 man, it simply is not the case.



dandd said:
The gap will shrink and we will be left just like the last generation. The PS3 came out and had subpar versions of games and over time they started looking practically like the 360 version. I expect the same for this generation.


Wishful thinking!