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Forums - Gaming - Hardware does matter! (hear me out)

g911turbo on 24 January 2014
FlamingWeazel said:
g911turbo said:
Mystro-Sama said:
Anfebious said:
To me it doesn't matter. Enjoy your overpowered console, I am fine with my Wii U!


Thats the Nintendo mentality... sigh.

 

You've been cultured.


But what you say is not necessarily true.  You think it's a BAD thing for a company to want to make money on each console sold vs lose money? 

Nintendo just posted losses again.......

WANT.  ATTEMPT.

I'm referring to the OP.  The Nintendo's and Apples of the world want to make hardware that they can make money on, not just software.

Using hardware as a loss leader is a cut throat model that can have bad side effects.  Look at the financial status of Sony during much of the PS3 era, certainly early.  Its a difficult model to maintain at times.  A much more IDEAL model is to find something that you can sell for profit from the get go.



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oniyide on 24 January 2014
the_dengle said:
oniyide said:
the_dengle said:

The OP's assertion that the Wii U is "limiting developers" by not being more powerful is hilarious in light of the massive delays Nintendo's first-party projects have seen because they're not used to working with such powerful hardware. More powerful hardware would only have resulted in worse delays. "We just got the word from up top, the Wii U has been made way more powerful. Up all of our assets to 1080p resolution." Yeah, that wouldn't be expensive or time-consuming.

But that makes no sense. its not a hardware issue then, its a " Ninty devs are incompetent issue" how come they are the only ones that seem to be having these issues? The Wii U isnt limiting anyone, their not limiting Ninty devs cause they barely no what they are doing anyway and its not limiting 3rd parties cause they dont even seem to be bothering in the first place.

But they aren't the only ones having these issues. Lots of other developers had the same issues... seven or eight years ago. Nintendo developers are NOT used to handling HD development, and I'll reiterate that for most Nintendo developers right now, "HD" means 720p. This thread is basically demanding that they be "allowed" to work with 1080p assets, which would be far more demanding on their budgets and dev time.

It's not a hardware issue. This has been established well enough. Pikmin 3 and the like certainly weren't delayed because they had to be toned down to accomodate the limited power of the Wii U, if that's what you're getting at. That's the opposite of what happened.

yes the keywords here are HAD the same issues, past tense. More keywords, seven to eight years ago. That is basic sadness, they could have easily reached out to the myraid of developers on help or advice who have been doing it for years. the fact that they cant even get 720p right and every else is starting with 1080p is classic Ninty being late to the party.

Im not getting at anything in the 2nd paragraph. im simply stating what i already said in the above paragraph. 



Mystro-Sama on 24 January 2014
spemanig said:
Mystro-Sama said:
spemanig said:
Mystro-Sama said:
spemanig said:
BeElite said:
spemanig said:
I'm a Nintendo fan. I think graphics don't matter. I think art style matters. I think performance does matter. I thought the Zelda Wii U tech demo was boring. I don't want Zelda for Wii U to look anything like the tech demo because that's not what Zelda is about. I think that Super Mario 3D World is beautiful because of it's art style. I think Super Mario Galaxy looks better because of it's art style.


what is it about ? why cant you get what u want from zelda why others get a more grown up visual zelda.


Because Zelda is quirky and humble and colorful. That tech demo was not quirky or humble. It was serious, desaturated, and show off-y. 

 

I think WW is the only Zelda to fall under that category. TP was pretty dark and depressing and also visually impressive compared to other games on the Wii and GC. Majoras Mask was kinda dark too. You can't judge what a series is based off one seperate example and lot of people prefered TP's art style over the other Zelda games. I liked the tech demo... like everyone else.


You think wrong. The only ones that don't are Twilight Princess and Skyward Sword, which are objectively the weaker titles. You have chickens attacking you, a Mario and Luigi parody, a Goron King that loves to dance, A Zora King that likes to troll, and goofy characters through out Ocarina of Time. Just because Majora's Mask was dark doesn't mean that it wasn't quirky, humble, and colorful, because it was. It was a personal journey. A Zora Sang his dying wish to a rock tune. It was dark in subject matter, not in pallet. There where tones of purples, reds, and greens as opposed to greys in browns like in the tech demo. Twilight Princess was dark in pallet, not dark in subject matter. It was just good vs. evil. So was the Wind Waker. Twilight Princess isn't at all visually impressing compared to most titles on the Wii and GCN. Metroid Prime 3 looks better. Wind Waker looks better. Skyward Sword looks better. Resident Evil 4 looks better. And on and on.

Thankfully, Aonuma already confirmed that the game won't look anything like the tech demo, and when looking at how A Link Between Worlds turned out, he finally remembers what made Zelda great. Guess internet debates about it are irrelevent when I get what I want in the end.

Seriously, go play the Witcher or something. Zelda will never be the game you want.

 

Didn't he also say that the WW artstyle was risky? Also why would they make a demo that looks completely different than the final product?

And why can't I play both The Witcher and Zelda (which I will)?

He did, then he made A Link Between Worlds, which is just as colorful, humble, and quirky. And the tech demo uses Twilight Princess assets. It is completely separate from Zelda Wii U, so it won't have any impact on the final product when he doesn't use it.

You absolutely can. Play the Witcher to show off your hardware and Zelda U to have something with quirk, color, and humility.


Isnt A Link Between Worlds a sequel and happens in the same universe as A Link To The Past? Therefore wouldn't it have to have to look and function the same?

 

And i'd still prefer another TP artstyle Zelda with bigger worlds, better physics, better lighting etc.



the_dengle on 24 January 2014
Mystro-Sama said:
the_dengle said:

How many professionals? For how long? Consider the cost of expanding your teams to accomodate HD development.

Where would these professionals come from? Do you pay a lot to snag some highly experienced designers from other major companies, or find some cheaper professionals who might not do such high quality work? Would these professionals be used to designing in Nintendo's style?

Let's take a couple of guys who worked on Asura's Wrath, and assign them to help out with Mario 3D World. Yeah, that'll work out great. They're totally on the same page as us on the art style.

 

They said they wanted the hardcore audience back. And being so long out of the loop you think it's going to be cheap? These professionals would be wise investments since games would actually be released as opposed to having massive droughts like in 2013 which would still hurt sales in end.

I guess they didn't anticipate that the "hardcore audience" would be so obsessed with terraflops and resolution, and thought people who are really "hardcore" about games would chase the truly great ones instead of the technically impressive ones. Obviously they were wrong.

Fact is, Nintendo HAS been expanding a lot of their studios over the past couple of years. I don't know what to tell you. They had development problems because they're not used to the demands of HD development. We've heard this several times from different sources. Nintendo doesn't want their dev teams to become bloated; they know that the best games come about when everyone working on them has the same end goal in mind, and it's far easier to keep everone on the same page when you have a team of 80 people as opposed to 150. The more you expand, the more you risk becoming disunified and losing sight of the heart of your ideas.

Nintendo certainly botched the Wii U launch, no one would dispute that. But this isn't about their sales or their software. This is about their hardware as a product, and their pricing policy which is far more reasonble for myself and others than that of Sony or Microsoft. And there's nothing wrong with their hardware: it functions perfectly fine. It plays excellent games. It is not falsely advertised.



oniyide on 24 January 2014
Mystro-Sama said:
the_dengle said:
Mystro-Sama said:

Which is pretty daft don't you think? How hard is it to hire a few professionals versed in HD developement to oversee their projects?

How many professionals? For how long? Consider the cost of expanding your teams to accomodate HD development.

Where would these professionals come from? Do you pay a lot to snag some highly experienced designers from other major companies, or find some cheaper professionals who might not do such high quality work? Would these professionals be used to designing in Nintendo's style?

Let's take a couple of guys who worked on Asura's Wrath, and assign them to help out with Mario 3D World. Yeah, that'll work out great. They're totally on the same page as us on the art style.

 

They said they wanted the hardcore audience back. And being so long out of the loop you think it's going to be cheap? These professionals would be wise investments since games would actually be released as opposed to having massive droughts like in 2013 which would still hurt sales in end.


in the end? its hurting now



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Mystro-Sama on 24 January 2014
g911turbo said:
FlamingWeazel said:
g911turbo said:
Mystro-Sama said:
Anfebious said:
To me it doesn't matter. Enjoy your overpowered console, I am fine with my Wii U!


Thats the Nintendo mentality... sigh.

 

You've been cultured.


But what you say is not necessarily true.  You think it's a BAD thing for a company to want to make money on each console sold vs lose money? 

Nintendo just posted losses again.......

WANT.  ATTEMPT.

I'm referring to the OP.  The Nintendo's and Apples of the world want to make hardware that they can make money on, not just software.

Using hardware as a loss leader is a cut throat model that can have bad side effects.  Look at the financial status of Sony during much of the PS3 era, certainly early.  Its a difficult model to maintain at times.  A much more IDEAL model is to find something that you can sell for profit from the get go.

 

Nah... The ps3 fail because Sony fucked up the launch completely (complete opposite of the ps4) in the same way Nintendo fucked up the Wii U's launch. They were coming off very successful systems and were over confident.

 

I believe these failures were necessary. It just shows them what happens when you get complacent.



g911turbo on 24 January 2014
ClassicGamingWizzz said:
Ponyless said:
ClassicGamingWizzz said:

hardware does not mather, framerate does not matter, resolution does not matter , third partys dont matter, power does not matter , sales dont matter

nothing matters for some people here


Games matter :). Do you think The Last of Us is a shit game because it's only 720p and 30 fps?


i think ff 7 is the best game ever, lets all fucking play ps1 !!!! YAY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


You guys are dodging the question from Pony.  He's not saying that hardware doesnt matter.  He's saying that software is all that matters.  There's a difference.

Everyone simply wants games they want to play.  That can be Mario, Uncharted, or Halo.  



chakkra on 24 January 2014

I don't understand that mindset in some Nintendo fans either. I mean, if hardware doesn't matter then why are they upgrading from the original Wii? because of the Gamepad??

If hardware doesn't matter then Nintendo should have just put the GamePad on the original Wii, and then take SM3DW, MK8, Wind Waker HD, Bayonetta 2, X, etc etc, and put them all on the Wii as well.



sidmeiernintifan on 24 January 2014

Hardware does matter, in my opinion the Wii U should simply have been the cheapest thing Nintendo could make twice as powerful as a PS3 (That would still be far less powerful than a PS4). And the gamepad is a bad idea.

But I am not very worried with regards to the quality of the games Nintendo will produce. The extra power this generation has (which the Wii U doesn't have) seems to be used mainly for creating big worlds, big cities, the virtual reality aspect of games, and I don't care much about that.
I like my games more classic, arcade like and gameplay focused.



the_dengle on 24 January 2014
oniyide said:

yes the keywords here are HAD the same issues, past tense. More keywords, seven to eight years ago. That is basic sadness, they could have easily reached out to the myraid of developers on help or advice who have been doing it for years. the fact that they cant even get 720p right and every else is starting with 1080p is classic Ninty being late to the party.

Im not getting at anything in the 2nd paragraph. im simply stating what i already said in the above paragraph. 

Nintendo didn't want to double the size of their dev teams so they could make HD games. They wanted to give their existing teams a crash-course in HD development so they could make HD games while staying true to their visions. They DID expand their dev teams, obviously not "enough" to finish their projects in a timely manner. Obviously the Wii U launch was botched.

That's all old news. What's your suggestion here? That the delays to Nintendo's first-party titles were obviously caused by the Wii U being underpowered? And the logic supporting your argument is that IF the cause was actually Nintendo's first-party developers being inexperienced with HD development, Nintendo simply would have kept throwing new employees at them until they had enough help to finish their games on-time? And that means that it's impossible for the problem to have been the inexperience of the developers. No, the developers who worked with the Wii for six years were demanding more power from the Wii U.