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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Anonymous Dev documents Wii U experience

supernihilist on 12 January 2014
walsufnir said:
Seems Nintendo has a tradition with this (I don't know about GC and Wii though):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64_programming_characteristics#Microcode

"The graphics and audio co-processor was programmable through microcode.[7] By altering the microcode run on the device, it could perform different operations, create new effects, and be better tuned for speed or quality; however, Nintendo was unwilling to share the microcode tools with developers[citation needed] until the end of the Nintendo 64's life-cycle. Programming RSP microcode was said to be quite difficult because the Nintendo 64 code tools were very basic, with no debugger and poor documentation. As a result, it was very easy to make mistakes that would be hard to track down, mistakes that could cause seemingly random bugs or glitches. SGI's default microcode for Nintendo 64 is called "Fast3D", which some developers noted was poorly profiled for use in games. Although it allowed more than ~100,000 high accuracy polygons per second, it was optimized more for accuracy than for speed, and performance suffered as a result. Nintendo's own "Turbo3D" microcode allowed 500,000–600,000 normal accuracy polygons per second. However, due to the graphical degradation, Nintendo discouraged its use. Several companies, such as Factor 5,[8] Boss Game Studios and Rare, were able to write custom microcode that ran their software better than SGI's standard microcode."


The tools and such were developed by Silicon graphics not by Nintendo.



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walsufnir on 12 January 2014
supernihilist said:
walsufnir said:
Seems Nintendo has a tradition with this (I don't know about GC and Wii though):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64_programming_characteristics#Microcode

"The graphics and audio co-processor was programmable through microcode.[7] By altering the microcode run on the device, it could perform different operations, create new effects, and be better tuned for speed or quality; however, Nintendo was unwilling to share the microcode tools with developers[citation needed] until the end of the Nintendo 64's life-cycle. Programming RSP microcode was said to be quite difficult because the Nintendo 64 code tools were very basic, with no debugger and poor documentation. As a result, it was very easy to make mistakes that would be hard to track down, mistakes that could cause seemingly random bugs or glitches. SGI's default microcode for Nintendo 64 is called "Fast3D", which some developers noted was poorly profiled for use in games. Although it allowed more than ~100,000 high accuracy polygons per second, it was optimized more for accuracy than for speed, and performance suffered as a result. Nintendo's own "Turbo3D" microcode allowed 500,000–600,000 normal accuracy polygons per second. However, due to the graphical degradation, Nintendo discouraged its use. Several companies, such as Factor 5,[8] Boss Game Studios and Rare, were able to write custom microcode that ran their software better than SGI's standard microcode."


The tools and such were developed by Silicon graphics not by Nintendo.


Completely? Most probably not, especially it was Nintendo's part to share as much documentation as possible. Given that they developed their own microcode it is clear they had this documentation.



Hynad on 12 January 2014
supernihilist said:
walsufnir said:
Seems Nintendo has a tradition with this (I don't know about GC and Wii though):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64_programming_characteristics#Microcode

"The graphics and audio co-processor was programmable through microcode.[7] By altering the microcode run on the device, it could perform different operations, create new effects, and be better tuned for speed or quality; however, Nintendo was unwilling to share the microcode tools with developers[citation needed] until the end of the Nintendo 64's life-cycle. Programming RSP microcode was said to be quite difficult because the Nintendo 64 code tools were very basic, with no debugger and poor documentation. As a result, it was very easy to make mistakes that would be hard to track down, mistakes that could cause seemingly random bugs or glitches. SGI's default microcode for Nintendo 64 is called "Fast3D", which some developers noted was poorly profiled for use in games. Although it allowed more than ~100,000 high accuracy polygons per second, it was optimized more for accuracy than for speed, and performance suffered as a result. Nintendo's own "Turbo3D" microcode allowed 500,000–600,000 normal accuracy polygons per second. However, due to the graphical degradation, Nintendo discouraged its use. Several companies, such as Factor 5,[8] Boss Game Studios and Rare, were able to write custom microcode that ran their software better than SGI's standard microcode."


The tools and such were developed by Silicon graphics not by Nintendo.

LOL! So? That doesn't change anything. It's still Nintendo that provided the devs with those half assed  tools. xD

There's a history of Nintendo not giving devs good tools, or providing them with poor documentation and overall support. That's the point. Things haven't changed. You don't need to be a hater to see and accept this fact. -__-



supernihilist on 12 January 2014
Hynad said:
supernihilist said:
walsufnir said:
Seems Nintendo has a tradition with this (I don't know about GC and Wii though):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64_programming_characteristics#Microcode

"The graphics and audio co-processor was programmable through microcode.[7] By altering the microcode run on the device, it could perform different operations, create new effects, and be better tuned for speed or quality; however, Nintendo was unwilling to share the microcode tools with developers[citation needed] until the end of the Nintendo 64's life-cycle. Programming RSP microcode was said to be quite difficult because the Nintendo 64 code tools were very basic, with no debugger and poor documentation. As a result, it was very easy to make mistakes that would be hard to track down, mistakes that could cause seemingly random bugs or glitches. SGI's default microcode for Nintendo 64 is called "Fast3D", which some developers noted was poorly profiled for use in games. Although it allowed more than ~100,000 high accuracy polygons per second, it was optimized more for accuracy than for speed, and performance suffered as a result. Nintendo's own "Turbo3D" microcode allowed 500,000–600,000 normal accuracy polygons per second. However, due to the graphical degradation, Nintendo discouraged its use. Several companies, such as Factor 5,[8] Boss Game Studios and Rare, were able to write custom microcode that ran their software better than SGI's standard microcode."


The tools and such were developed by Silicon graphics not by Nintendo.

LOL! So? That doesn't change anything. It's still Nintendo that provided the devs with those half assed  tools. xD

There's a history of Nintendo not giving devs good tools, or providing them with poor documentation and overall support. That's the point. Things haven't changed. You don't need to be a hater to see and accept this fact. -__-


Which law of god forces Nintendo to help every 3rd party that develops for their HW? besides Nintendo cant do that they are too small.

+ its their bussiness not Nintendos. If 3rd parties want glory and fame it will require a glorious effort. (See Factor 5)



S.Peelman on 12 January 2014
Hynad said:

Complains about the others pretending to know his personality and life. 

Goes on and end up doing the exact same thing (gaming experience).

That's rich. xD

Heh, yeah okay that's pretty stupid, even if it's highly likely to be the truth .



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Hynad on 12 January 2014
supernihilist said:
Hynad said:
supernihilist said:
walsufnir said:
Seems Nintendo has a tradition with this (I don't know about GC and Wii though):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nintendo_64_programming_characteristics#Microcode

"The graphics and audio co-processor was programmable through microcode.[7] By altering the microcode run on the device, it could perform different operations, create new effects, and be better tuned for speed or quality; however, Nintendo was unwilling to share the microcode tools with developers[citation needed] until the end of the Nintendo 64's life-cycle. Programming RSP microcode was said to be quite difficult because the Nintendo 64 code tools were very basic, with no debugger and poor documentation. As a result, it was very easy to make mistakes that would be hard to track down, mistakes that could cause seemingly random bugs or glitches. SGI's default microcode for Nintendo 64 is called "Fast3D", which some developers noted was poorly profiled for use in games. Although it allowed more than ~100,000 high accuracy polygons per second, it was optimized more for accuracy than for speed, and performance suffered as a result. Nintendo's own "Turbo3D" microcode allowed 500,000–600,000 normal accuracy polygons per second. However, due to the graphical degradation, Nintendo discouraged its use. Several companies, such as Factor 5,[8] Boss Game Studios and Rare, were able to write custom microcode that ran their software better than SGI's standard microcode."


The tools and such were developed by Silicon graphics not by Nintendo.

LOL! So? That doesn't change anything. It's still Nintendo that provided the devs with those half assed  tools. xD

There's a history of Nintendo not giving devs good tools, or providing them with poor documentation and overall support. That's the point. Things haven't changed. You don't need to be a hater to see and accept this fact. -__-


Which law of god forces Nintendo to help every 3rd party that develops for their HW? besides Nintendo cant do that they are too small.

+ its their bussiness not Nintendos. If 3rd parties want glory and fame it will require a glorious effort. (See Factor 5)

No law forces Nintendo to provide good tools and support to developers. Yet Sony and Microsoft do that. They support the developers with tools they make to facilitate development on their respective platforms. Which makes developing for them all the more time and cost effective, and also creates a friendly environment to work for. If you present yourself as a difficult person to work with, people are most likely not going to enjoy doing it. In the end, they might not even bother at all. Why you can't seem to grasp and accept this is beyond reason. But go on, keep the spins going.



drake4 on 12 January 2014

honestly this thread is pointless, even with good tools and help from nintendo it wouldn't make a difference, because of the hardware nintendo chose, even in this developer documentary, the developer make it clear the wiiu cannot run nextgen games cause of the wiiu hardware power difference, then you have a list of developers telling us wiiu hardware is not as powerful as current gen or it's only slightly more powerful or it is more power powerful so we don't know who to blame cause everybody has there own opinion on the hardware, you can see clealry see in this link http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=175934&page=1# the only huge mistake nintendo did was focusing on making the console very green and small instead of making it more powerful, more powerful hardware would run 360/ps3 ports with no effort, even with crappy tools.



snyps on 12 January 2014
drake4 said:

honestly this thread is pointless, even with good tools and help from nintendo it wouldn't make a difference, because of the hardware nintendo chose, even in this developer documentary, the developer make it clear the wiiu cannot run nextgen games cause of the wiiu hardware power difference, then you have a list of developers telling us wiiu hardware is not as powerful as current gen or it's only slightly more powerful or it is more power powerful so we don't know who to blame cause everybody has there own opinion on the hardware, you can see clealry see in this link http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=175934&page=1# the only huge mistake nintendo did was focusing on making the console very green and small instead of making it more powerful, more powerful hardware would run 360/ps3 ports with no effort, even with crappy tools.


the tools have probably improved by now don't you think.  so you're right in what matter to you n the others.  What matter to me is this touchscreen i'm typing on from my bed while ac 4 is paused after i barely woke up.  The Nintendo Wii U  GamePad. it's worth every bit.



Lyrikalstylez on 12 January 2014

This is why u don't buy Nintendo consoles anymore period, they are very cocky and dillutional



drake4 on 12 January 2014
snyps said:
drake4 said:

honestly this thread is pointless, even with good tools and help from nintendo it wouldn't make a difference, because of the hardware nintendo chose, even in this developer documentary, the developer make it clear the wiiu cannot run nextgen games cause of the wiiu hardware power difference, then you have a list of developers telling us wiiu hardware is not as powerful as current gen or it's only slightly more powerful or it is more power powerful so we don't know who to blame cause everybody has there own opinion on the hardware, you can see clealry see in this link http://gamrconnect.vgchartz.com/thread.php?id=175934&page=1# the only huge mistake nintendo did was focusing on making the console very green and small instead of making it more powerful, more powerful hardware would run 360/ps3 ports with no effort, even with crappy tools.


the tools have probably improved by now don't you think.  so you're right in what matter to you n the others.  What matter to me is this touchscreen i'm typing on from my bed while ac 4 is paused after i barely woke up.  The Nintendo Wii U  GamePad. it's worth every bit.

you can do the samething with a laptop and a hdmi cable with, sure it might not be exact same experiance but very close imo.