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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - Bayonetta versus Bayonetta 2 comparison video

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RazorDragon on 01 January 2014
SubiyaCryolite said:
RazorDragon said:
SubiyaCryolite said:

Actually it could genious, but at unplayable framerate. You think textures get stored in MHz? Why do high res texture packs require cards to have 1GB or more RAM? A 512MB 9800GTX cant handle Skyrims HQ textures, but a 1GB 9600GT could.

And you just had to choose a Voodoo 2, as if the the Wii Us GPU is soooo much more powerful than the 360s right?


The unplayable framerate part is exactly the one I'm talking about. Now get a 1GB 9800GTX and 1GB 9600GT and try making texture resolution go up in any game, you'll lose more performance on the 9600GT than you will on the 9800GT, all other settings equal. That's what I'm talking about, textures don't get stored in MHz, but making use of higher resolution textures isn't a free thing just because you have more RAM, you need more compute power to actually aplly those to a gaming environment.


A 512MB 9800GTX cant handle Skyrims HQ textures, but a 1GB 9600GT could.

Is a 1GB 9600 GT more powerful that a 512MB 9600GT? No, its the same card but one can handle higher res textures and the other cant. Do you think theyd perorm the same with skyrims high res textures, honestly? Now why is that so hard to process in regards to WiiU vs XBox 360? What makes you think a 360 with 1GB of RAM cant do what the WiiU is doing now when it barely beats Vanilla 360 as is? When a game like Resident Evil Revelations of all things judders on the system? Do I need to put a link to every damn faceoff involving the Wii U.

No I dont this alone will do 

"we can rule out any next-gen pretensions for Wii U" 

http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/df-hardware-wii-u-graphics-power-finally-revealed

At the time (before I got the system) I dismissed them but after a year on the market and owning one for myself its painfully obvious. These guys arent fanboys, arent affeliated to any system and actually know what they are talking about so I'll take their word (and my eyes) over anythying else.


One can handle higher-res textures, sure, but with worse framerate. I actually prefer their faceoff for NFS Most Wanted. You know, the game with better textures than the 360/PS3 version and better/comparable framerate.



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DevilRising on 01 January 2014
S.T.A.G.E. said:
vivster said:
A moment of silence for how great this game could've looked on PS4.


LOL. Im dead right now, thats so trueeee! LOL!

 Bayonetta 2: A little past last gen but glossier. ;)


It must be hard for folks who honestly care more about graphics than anything else when it comes to gaming. I'm not saying YOU feel that way, however a lot of people seem to.

And the silly/sad part is, people sitting around arguing over home console graphics and graphics capabilities, when any graphics whore worth their salt knows that the best hardware and best possible graphics these days are always going to be on high-end PCs, rendering the entire fanboy argument moot.

 

The fact is, Wii U's GPU is plenty strong, it's not "last gen", and the system will provide some of the best looking games of the 8th gen. It already has, in Pikmin 3 and Super Mario 3D World, and those games are first wave software, not even close to really tapping the console's power. Of COURSE PS4 is going to have the very most technically impressive, sparkliest, flashiest graphics at the end of the day. But if Wii could produce some of the best looking games of last gen on "barely better than GC hardware" as some put it, then Wii U can and will absolutely produce some of the prettiest games of the 8th gen, considering the power gap between Wii U and PS4 is considerably smaller than Wii vs. PS3. This gen will be about physics and scalable game engines, not about shiniest graphics. Period.



curl-6 on 01 January 2014
SubiyaCryolite said:
curl-6 said:
SubiyaCryolite said:

Yes, but it would best the WiiU graphically thats for sure.

On topic, everything Bayonetta 2 does on Wii U (textures+scale) is largely due to the RAM. Its nice but from a purely technical standpoint its not so impressive given the age of the 360 and the enhancements facilitated only by ram if nothing else. As it stands no single game has shown the Wii Us gpu to be above of that of the 360 in terms of raw power, almost every enhancement seen so far is a result of extra ram or dev time. Why, because share the exact same geometry, exact same resolution and usually lower framrate. That doesnt scream power.

A Wii U with a 16 core CPU, 16GB of RAM, and a high end PC GPU would best the PS4. See how pointless such claims are?

Games like Trine 2 and Need for Speed showed GPU-relevant improvements on Wii U over 360; resolution, water shaders, and anti-aliasing in Trine, reflections and framerate in Need for Speed.


The framerate of Most Wanted U is exactly the same as the 360/PS3 and it sometimes drops to lower levels.

The world and car geometry is exactly the same.

It has the exact same resolution. 

The Textures are a result of RAM. 

The lighting was rewritten for the Wii U as well "Dev Time", theres no saying it couldnt be applied to the 360. Im basing this on Oblivion 360 vs Oblivion PS3 (a year later and significantly better looking on more or less identical hardware). 

Road reflections "could" have been left out on the consoles because of RAM as well, Im not sure how taxing that would be from a GPU standpoint, I cant confrim this obviously. 

Trine 2 operates at the same resolution, though the 360 & PS3 use dynamic scaling in parts. It has a locked 30fps framerate. Exact same geometry. The Anti Aliasing on the Wii U is more "refined", see Oblivion 360 vs PS3. 

"higher-resolution textures and more detailed foliage are used in many places throughout the game" == RAM.

"Other refinements to the PC game are more subtle - such as the use of higher-quality normal map compression, increased water complexity and splash effects - but these elements work well with the inclusion of higher-resolution textures to deliver more detailed imagery on screen in a way which emphasises the lush look of the environments" == RAM. Water & Splash == Physics == Dev time. Assuming these are CPU based theres no reason they shouldnt exist on 360. If GPU based then those DX11 Compute extentions came in handy.

"A look at the Wii U version of Trine 2 yields no unwanted surprises either - performance is a match for the 360 game with a straight line on our FPS graph showing a solid, sustained, consistent 30FPS update with no tearing in sight." == On par with 360s GPU, whuch has no tearing either.

"this partially explains the 1890MB file-size over the 1.1 GB on the 360 and 1144MB on the PS3, with higher-resolution assets also taking up additional space. " == RAM

If Bayonetta 2 is native 1080p I'll have to eat crow but every gameplay video released thus far has OBVIOUS jaggies even in 720p so I wont hold my breath. Smash will be 1080p but it lookes like Brawl with higher res textures so that isnt off the table. Same with DK.

Mario Kart 8 looks really impressive and if thats 1080p I'll eat crow too. Though the latest trailer also had obvious jaggies.

Taxing realisticish games like Pikmin 3 run at 720p30.

Nintendoland which is quite the looker also runs at 720p60.

Mario 3DLand looks great but uses artstyle to great effect to achieve 720p60.

NSMBU 720p60.

Project cars 720p30.

99.99% of 3D realistic or semi realistic Wii U games 720p30 or sub 30.

If Im wrong Ill gladly eat that humble pie but I dont believe I am. 

My point still stands. Its not like the PS4 version of Trine 2 that runs at 1080p60fps. Trine 2 could even hit 4K at 30fps. 4 bloody K at 30fps. Thats an OBVIOUS generational increase in raw GPU power not present on the Wii U.

From digital foundry's Need for Speed Wii U analysis:  "rather than being bogged down by the extras, we're instead seeing a frame-rate that sticks to its target more diligently than either the PS3 or 360 versions." 

"Dust clouds appearing around tyres brings that refresh hurtling down to a constant 20FPS on rival consoles, but the Wii U dips to just 25FPS for that same duration. It's a clear result that tips the scales even further in favour of this latest version of the game."

The latter in particular, better handling of alpha transparencies, is a GPU issue. Extra reflections also have to be rendered by the GPU.

Likewise, for Trine 2, the Wii U's superior water shaders, anti-aliasing, and locked 720p resolution versus dynamic downscaling to sub-HD to maintain performance on PS3/360, all mean more work for the GPU.

While it may seem to make sense at first glance, the "dev time" excuse doesn't work in practice, because PS3/360 have an extra six years of developer experience and engine optimization on their side, which is a much bigger advantage.



SubiyaCryolite on 02 January 2014

Dropping to 25fps compared to 20fps with alpha effects in a 7th gen game. So its roughly 20% more powerful than a GPU released in 2005. Thats so impressive, what does that mean for future racers or games on the system? Drops to 15fps?

Its a shame Digital Foundry hasn't done a face off of current gen NFS Rivals. Ive seen footage and bar textures it looks just as good as MWU. Feel free to see for yourself, extra time always makes a difference even on old hardware.

Ubisoft got extra resolution and good performance on the X1 and PS4 versions of Black FlagFlag right out the gate. And yet the Wii U version lags behind the PS3 and 360 versions. Oh let me guess, lazy devs right? No one calls them lazy on any other system.And the funny thing is I still decided to purchase BF on my WiiU over my 7870HD powered PC. I'm not some insane graphics whore but paying so much for graphical quality thats been around for almost a decade is incredibly annoying.

The fact that I'll need to purchase another system to experience many next gen console exclusives is equally annoying. Ive spent too much as it stands. If WiiU was built like a SNES in comparison to the competition I wouldn't have to do that but Nintendos new hardware paradigm just doesn't allow that.

 

And anyone whos honest can see that Boyenetta 2 is an incremental improvement over 1. There's no Forza 4 to 5, Killzone 3 to 4 or even Mario Galaxy 2 to 3D World difference in graphics or scale now is there?



I predict that the Wii U will sell a total of 18 million units in its lifetime. 

The NX will be a 900p machine

S.T.A.G.E. on 02 January 2014
DevilRising said:
S.T.A.G.E. said:
vivster said:
A moment of silence for how great this game could've looked on PS4.


LOL. Im dead right now, thats so trueeee! LOL!

 Bayonetta 2: A little past last gen but glossier. ;)


It must be hard for folks who honestly care more about graphics than anything else when it comes to gaming. I'm not saying YOU feel that way, however a lot of people seem to.

And the silly/sad part is, people sitting around arguing over home console graphics and graphics capabilities, when any graphics whore worth their salt knows that the best hardware and best possible graphics these days are always going to be on high-end PCs, rendering the entire fanboy argument moot.

 

The fact is, Wii U's GPU is plenty strong, it's not "last gen", and the system will provide some of the best looking games of the 8th gen. It already has, in Pikmin 3 and Super Mario 3D World, and those games are first wave software, not even close to really tapping the console's power. Of COURSE PS4 is going to have the very most technically impressive, sparkliest, flashiest graphics at the end of the day. But if Wii could produce some of the best looking games of last gen on "barely better than GC hardware" as some put it, then Wii U can and will absolutely produce some of the prettiest games of the 8th gen, considering the power gap between Wii U and PS4 is considerably smaller than Wii vs. PS3. This gen will be about physics and scalable game engines, not about shiniest graphics. Period.


You have nothing to prove to me about the Wii U's power. I am not expecting very much from the Wii U in terms of power, i just wanted an up to last gen par level console from Nintendo which I never got from the original Wii. I am certainly getting one this gen and Bayonetta is definitely on my list. Its just really funny to think how great Bayonetta would've looked on the more powerful next gen consoles. Almost brings a fan to tears, the destruction and scale would've probably been 3 to 4x as big. When I think about it though I am thankful Nintendo is taking the fall to make this game happen because even though I doubt it will sell well exclusively to a Nintendo platform i hope it does so we can see a Bayonetta 3. Thank you Nintendo for picking up the tab because no one else would. I feel bad for Ninty already because of the sales with the Wonderful 101.



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curl-6 on 02 January 2014
SubiyaCryolite said:

Dropping to 25fps compared to 20fps with alpha effects in a 7th gen game. So its roughly 20% more powerful than a GPU released in 2005. Thats so impressive, what does that mean for future racers or games on the system? Drops to 15fps?

Its a shame Digital Foundry hasn't done a face off of current gen NFS Rivals. Ive seen footage and bar textures it looks just as good as MWU. Feel free to see for yourself, extra time always makes a difference even on old hardware.

Ubisoft got extra resolution and good performance on the X1 and PS4 versions of Black FlagFlag right out the gate. And yet the Wii U version lags behind the PS3 and 360 versions. Oh let me guess, lazy devs right? No one calls them lazy on any other system.And the funny thing is I still decided to purchase BF on my WiiU over my 7870HD powered PC. I'm not some insane graphics whore but paying so much for graphical quality thats been around for almost a decade is incredibly annoying.

The fact that I'll need to purchase another system to experience many next gen console exclusives is equally annoying. Ive spent too much as it stands. If WiiU was built like a SNES in comparison to the competition I wouldn't have to do that but Nintendos new hardware paradigm just doesn't allow that.

 

And anyone whos honest can see that Boyenetta 2 is an incremental improvement over 1. There's no Forza 4 to 5, Killzone 3 to 4 or even Mario Galaxy 2 to 3D World difference in graphics or scale now is there?

Again, any extra time the Wii U version got is more than outweighed by the fact that PS3/360 have an extra 6 years of engine optimization and dev experience on their side.

When you have twice as much RAM but no increase is asset quality, that's proof of a lazy dev caught red handed.



bigtakilla on 02 January 2014
SubiyaCryolite said:

Dropping to 25fps compared to 20fps with alpha effects in a 7th gen game. So its roughly 20% more powerful than a GPU released in 2005. Thats so impressive, what does that mean for future racers or games on the system? Drops to 15fps?

Its a shame Digital Foundry hasn't done a face off of current gen NFS Rivals. Ive seen footage and bar textures it looks just as good as MWU. Feel free to see for yourself, extra time always makes a difference even on old hardware.

Ubisoft got extra resolution and good performance on the X1 and PS4 versions of Black FlagFlag right out the gate. And yet the Wii U version lags behind the PS3 and 360 versions. Oh let me guess, lazy devs right? No one calls them lazy on any other system.And the funny thing is I still decided to purchase BF on my WiiU over my 7870HD powered PC. I'm not some insane graphics whore but paying so much for graphical quality thats been around for almost a decade is incredibly annoying.

The fact that I'll need to purchase another system to experience many next gen console exclusives is equally annoying. Ive spent too much as it stands. If WiiU was built like a SNES in comparison to the competition I wouldn't have to do that but Nintendos new hardware paradigm just doesn't allow that.

 

And anyone whos honest can see that Boyenetta 2 is an incremental improvement over 1. There's no Forza 4 to 5, Killzone 3 to 4 or even Mario Galaxy 2 to 3D World difference in graphics or scale now is there?

Well, here's a few things they could work on.

1: Frame rate. You love eurogamers digital foundry so much I thought we should look at the first Bayonetta's performance. (Spoiler alert, neither are good.)

http://www.eurogamer.net/videos/digital-foundry-bayonetta-performance-analysis-part-1

from 60 to 20s on the 360 version.

 

2: How about actual cutscenes instead of still frames with voice overs?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zG5v-8zbC5w

 

3: Resolution over 720p

(shown in both videos above)

 

4: Graphics: Well that is what this thread's about.

(examples shown throughout)

 

I'm not saying the Wii U version will hit every one of these marks (though I think it could), but even if it doesn't it can still be a major improvement on the 1st.



SubiyaCryolite on 02 January 2014
curl-6 said:
SubiyaCryolite said:

Dropping to 25fps compared to 20fps with alpha effects in a 7th gen game. So its roughly 20% more powerful than a GPU released in 2005. Thats so impressive, what does that mean for future racers or games on the system? Drops to 15fps?

Its a shame Digital Foundry hasn't done a face off of current gen NFS Rivals. Ive seen footage and bar textures it looks just as good as MWU. Feel free to see for yourself, extra time always makes a difference even on old hardware.

Ubisoft got extra resolution and good performance on the X1 and PS4 versions of Black FlagFlag right out the gate. And yet the Wii U version lags behind the PS3 and 360 versions. Oh let me guess, lazy devs right? No one calls them lazy on any other system.And the funny thing is I still decided to purchase BF on my WiiU over my 7870HD powered PC. I'm not some insane graphics whore but paying so much for graphical quality thats been around for almost a decade is incredibly annoying.

The fact that I'll need to purchase another system to experience many next gen console exclusives is equally annoying. Ive spent too much as it stands. If WiiU was built like a SNES in comparison to the competition I wouldn't have to do that but Nintendos new hardware paradigm just doesn't allow that.

 

And anyone whos honest can see that Boyenetta 2 is an incremental improvement over 1. There's no Forza 4 to 5, Killzone 3 to 4 or even Mario Galaxy 2 to 3D World difference in graphics or scale now is there?

Again, any extra time the Wii U version got is more than outweighed by the fact that PS3/360 have an extra 6 years of engine optimization and dev experience on their side.

When you have twice as much RAM but no increase is asset quality, that's proof of a lazy dev caught red handed.



Extra dev time has had zero effect, Wii U version of MW looks miles ahead >_>



I predict that the Wii U will sell a total of 18 million units in its lifetime. 

The NX will be a 900p machine

curl-6 on 05 January 2014
SubiyaCryolite said:
curl-6 said:
SubiyaCryolite said:

Dropping to 25fps compared to 20fps with alpha effects in a 7th gen game. So its roughly 20% more powerful than a GPU released in 2005. Thats so impressive, what does that mean for future racers or games on the system? Drops to 15fps?

Its a shame Digital Foundry hasn't done a face off of current gen NFS Rivals. Ive seen footage and bar textures it looks just as good as MWU. Feel free to see for yourself, extra time always makes a difference even on old hardware.

Ubisoft got extra resolution and good performance on the X1 and PS4 versions of Black FlagFlag right out the gate. And yet the Wii U version lags behind the PS3 and 360 versions. Oh let me guess, lazy devs right? No one calls them lazy on any other system.And the funny thing is I still decided to purchase BF on my WiiU over my 7870HD powered PC. I'm not some insane graphics whore but paying so much for graphical quality thats been around for almost a decade is incredibly annoying.

The fact that I'll need to purchase another system to experience many next gen console exclusives is equally annoying. Ive spent too much as it stands. If WiiU was built like a SNES in comparison to the competition I wouldn't have to do that but Nintendos new hardware paradigm just doesn't allow that.

 

And anyone whos honest can see that Boyenetta 2 is an incremental improvement over 1. There's no Forza 4 to 5, Killzone 3 to 4 or even Mario Galaxy 2 to 3D World difference in graphics or scale now is there?

Again, any extra time the Wii U version got is more than outweighed by the fact that PS3/360 have an extra 6 years of engine optimization and dev experience on their side.

When you have twice as much RAM but no increase is asset quality, that's proof of a lazy dev caught red handed.



Extra dev time has had zero effect, Wii U version of MW looks miles ahead >_>

Extra dev time helps, but ultimately 1GB of RAM is simply more than <500MB.



warhammer777 on 05 January 2014

Game look amazing.