Okay! Love your avatar!

is you seem to ignore my whole point, babana said ms had no vision, i said they did.and that eventho they had to make adjustments its still in the pipeline. and its true 99% of the people just heard a rumor did no research and just followed a few guys shouting on the internet.

grabbed from wikipedia:

"The term innovation can be defined as something original and, as consequence, new that "breaks in to" the market or into society. One usually associates to new phenomena that are important in some way. A definition of the term, in line with these aspects, would be the following: "An innovation is something original, new, and important - in whatever field - that breaks in to (or obtains a foothold in) a market or society."

i agree with this definition.  people throw the word innovation around too much now-a-days.  very few things truely deserve the lable of "innovative".  that's actually kind of the point.  innovative ideas are the big important ones that changes everything. ps4 and xbox one are not really all the innovative.  ..in part because they both did the same thing on a majority of the innovations (suspend/resume  and video caputure) which fails the "original" criteria.

most of the arguments i've watched about innovations mostly focus on the how things are implemented not the what was imlemented.  that's argument is already off point..

Both of you guys are being selective and incredibly biased.  Take a step back from the console wars and be a little more honest about the "whole" thing.

For everybody play what you like as always.  Enjoy your consoles and stop with the bs arguments

Xbox One may add more but not stuff i care about to be honest.

Gaikai is the only next gen thing i really care about

Xbox is innovatife in its way, it sucks the innovation it brings have nothing to do with gaming...one of the best cable box around though....

and this proves my point. Microsoft has no proper vision, they never did. The unavoidable digital future is already done, its already here and its happening, and it is NOT microsofts vision. its valves and apples. Microsoft as a hardware an Entertiament company has been nothing but a follower, they are were not visinoaries and still are not. all this bullshit talk about a digital future and vision that microsoft has, give me a break, microsoft has been following the leads of apple, google and valve with their attempts to become more about enteraiment and hardware.

The Three major forms of enteraiment Are Movies/tv/Video, Music and Games. the and all 3 Microsoft has been a follower, not a poineer. they have had no vision, and their constant failures are nothing but proof. and then comes the rise of the internet and changed the landscape of how these 3 forms of entermaint are consumed and distribution. and again, microsoft has been a follower. they have been a company that has no vision and are completely short sighted.

Music: One of the major revelation and revulotion of the music industry that happened in recent years is something called the iPod, remember that little thing? the MP3 music player that made Apple billions? now tell me, how was music distributed on the iPod? ahhh a little thing called digital distribution, and guess who poineered there? guess who's vision that was? apples. 

then came a little thing called the zune? remembe that? no? thats alright because nobody really does. it was a poor attempt from microsoft to try rival apple in a market they poineered in and they saw the vision to cater too. Microsoft were followered, and failures at being so too.

Tv/Movies/Video: again, its not microsoft here who did anything, or apple or sony for that matter, it was YouTube and netflix(and other streaming companies). Youtube pretty much created a whole new market that profits only on online adverstiment revenue, a thing that microsoft also didnt poineer with, but google did, just look at the shallow attempts microsoft has been trying to do to dethrone google with big. another market and another time microsoft follows. but back to Video/tv/music. 

MS obviously hasnt been trying to rivals these companies, but use them, put Netflix and other apps behind a paywall to try show value in its online service. put apps such as hulu, netlfix and so on behind a paywall and say "hey! xbox live is worth the money!" when it really is mostly a paywall.

Then we have the HDMI input, which basically just makes your xbox one work as a remote, it doesnt give you anything extra, just another way to control the tv that is provided by other companies. 

Games: The unavoidable digital future that is coming, the future that is all about software and not hardware. the future where hardware is just the means to reach the consumers and give them the content through digital distribution. Thats what i been hearing, that that is microsoft vision. but in reality it isnt, not even close.

we already have a fully online digital distribution service, Steam. and the most commical thing is that it is on a MICROSOFT platform!! ohh the irony!! tell me, if microsoft was so visionary, why arent they in Valves position? why didnt microsoft poineer digital distribution on their own fucking damn platform? why? because they have no vision. it isnt theirs, they are followers. but the argument stands that microsoft wants a piece of hardware that everybody has so they can reach their software and services to the maximum amount of people, thats why they made the xbox. though do you know what everybody has? a PC..... To bad valve is the dominant player there, with EA now becoming a comptitor, if only microsoft acted faster..... to bad you actually need a vision to do that. 

you sir, are the one spreading bullshit here, and you sir are not calling out anybody but yourself and exposing nothing but your own bias uninformed point of view. Microsoft had the oppertunity to poineer in every major form of entertiament, but they lacked the vision to do so, and their failures are just proof of it. 

look at my last post. im not the one taking cheap personal shots at the other here. 

I read it and is all incredibly biased opinions.  Kinect has been visionary, New online smart features, and even the original DRM stance was visionary (Wether it was right or wrong is different story).  

To say XBO was just trying to be like PS4, well that would make PS4 nothing more than being like X360 even charging for online now and replicating X360's controller design (with their own twists).  Most consoles were just trying to be like another according to you.  The only console seperating itself would be XBO and Wii according to you with Kinect and Wiimote

You can spin it however you want but instead you are stating an opinion as if yours is the only one right and not to mention your arguing about not one, but two consoles you don't even own.