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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - FAST Racing NEO powered by 2nd generation engine for Wii U supports and uses 4k-8k textures

curl-6 on 24 November 2013
fatslob-:O said:

There are other bottlenecks in the WII U such as the fillrates and processing power too! The WII U is theoretically all around weaker than the PS360!

You talk as if the PS3/360 didn't have bottlenecks. They did. 360's mere 10MB of eDRAM was a bottleneck. Both console's <500MB of RAM was a bottleneck.



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gmcmen on 24 November 2013
curl-6 said:
gmcmen said:
curl-6 said:
gmcmen said:
curl-6 said:
gmcmen said:

And do you think nintendo fans really care, sure they argue about te wiiu being  much more powerful then currentgen, just to to feel better out the wiiu purchase but they really don't care, just look at 3d mario world, its a nice looking game by all means, but nothing close to being top tier when you compare it to 360/ps3, yet nintendo fans feels it nextgen cause its mario, finally in HD, now replace mario and put knack in those mario 3d world pics and everybody would be saying how ugly it is.

No, people say Knack is ugly cos it looks bland, while Mario looks colourful and lively.


honestly both look bland as hell, mario 3d environments looks pretty barren, and the heavy use of bloom feels like its 2006 again. I'm not a fan of all the shaders and depth of field they shit on the screen. It screams "we finally have shaders".  sonic generations looks so much better then both that it makes me sad, i expect mario galaxy 3 to match sonic genertions graphically and if they can do it at 60fps then that would be a dream come true.

i disagree. I think 3D World's use effects like of depth of field and rim shading produce a nicely soft, luminous look that's quite  pleasing to the eye. Big fan of the bold colours and rain effects as well.


Galaxy 1  & 2 push the Wii much harder than 3D World pushes Wii U, yes. I mostly put this down to their inexperience with HD level development and programmable shaders.

But I still think 3D World looks nice:


i would say mario 3d world is not pushing the wiiu at all, sure it looks nice, but graphically it was a big disappointment for me.



gmcmen on 24 November 2013
fatslob-:O said:
megafenix said:
fatslob-:O said:
megafenix said:
fatslob-:O said:
megafenix said:
ports will always make thw wii u to underpeform unless the developers change te source code to reallocate resources from main ram to cache or edram, and of course, they also have to leave the sound process to the dsp and use the other core of the wii u cpu for other job to speed up things

of course this takes time and effort and must of the dont ,mind doing it

This sounds like damage control for the WII U. 

If the WII U truly had more "power" these ports wouldn't be struggling because a game will automatically take advantage of more powerful hardware such as the PC. It wouldn't take any effort whatsoever if the hardware was truly more powerful. 

Clearly the WII U fails to provide the much needed bandwidth, fillrate, and processing power for games like COD and batman. 

it5 doesnt really matter how powerful it is if the source code doesnt take profit of the system

the port comes fro xbox, so what the source code takes into account?

only 1 mega of cache

only 10 megas of cache

 

even if wiiu has triple of that, the source code doesnt use it since its a port of xbox, all what could have been fitted on teh extra cache and edram does directky to main ram sicne the source code tells the system to do so

 

so, to sollve it, developers have to reallocate the resources, but mmust of them dont mind since are in a hurry

 

ps4 doesnt have to struggle with this since doesnt have edram, just a big gddr5 main ram, so no matter hopw lazy the developers are, the possibility of making a crap port is very unlikely

You need to understand that there are more factors to a games performance rather than memory usage! 

It is not the usage of memory alone that makes the game performs better. There are other things like fillrate which determine how fast it takes to write textures to a surface and how many pixels it can push out or the processing power required to calculate animations and lighting as well but all of those don't matter if it is under utilizied by low bandwidth either. 

The WII U has clearly demonstrated a lack of these elements altogether in some games shown. 

 

you understimate edram to much, unlike xbox, its not just for framebuffer, wiiu has edram also for textures, doing intensive cpu works though l3 cache, etc

 

the problem is that when developers dont make good use of the edram and use to much ram, the main ram bottleneck the gpu and cpu capailities, tahts whats going on

 

imagine an hd8800 with only 128 megabytes of vram

does it matter?cant we just rely on the main ram?

I'll say it one more time and never again in this thread. You cannot rely the eDRAM everytime becuase it is only used for caching frequently accessed data. There will be a time where the eDRAM misses and that's when the WII U is going to have to access the main memory and only the main memory. The WII U cannot by fed with just 32MB of data, it needs more than that and accessing the main memory is important for that operation. 

There are other bottlenecks in the WII U such as the fillrates and processing power too! The WII U is theoretically all around weaker than the PS360!


at this point why would any wiiu gamer care, most ports are worse then 360/ps3 versions and the console looks like it wont be getting any real third party support next year, the only thing i want for nintendo is to give me mario, zelda, f-zero, DK, metroid and starfox with top tier graphics from currentgen, just give me graphics that can match forza horizone, uncharted 3, lou and halo 4 and i won't complain but so far they haven't been able to do that.



curl-6 on 24 November 2013
gmcmen said:
curl-6 said:
gmcmen said:

Galaxy 1  & 2 push the Wii much harder than 3D World pushes Wii U, yes. I mostly put this down to their inexperience with HD level development and programmable shaders.

But I still think 3D World looks nice:


i would say mario 3d world is not pushing the wiiu at all, sure it looks nice, but graphically it was a big disappointment for me.

I would agree it's not really pushing the system.

Later games like Monolith Soft's X, and perhaps the game this thread is about, FAST Racing Neo, will do that.



fatslob-:O on 24 November 2013
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:

There are other bottlenecks in the WII U such as the fillrates and processing power too! The WII U is theoretically all around weaker than the PS360!

You talk as if the PS3/360 didn't have bottlenecks. They did. 360's mere 10MB of eDRAM was a bottleneck. Both console's <500MB of RAM was a bottleneck.

All consoles have bottlenecks and this includes PCs too! Last gen consoles had a low amount of memory and memory bandwidth too. The WII U lacks in fillrates and that especially goes for today. The X1 lacks memory bandwidth and ROPS to make 1080p a norm. The PS4 has a pretty low end CPU so RTSs aren't going anywhere yet on the PCs. PCs also have an issue too such as multithreaded software and diminshing returns due to the limits of transitioning to new manufacturing node processes too, you'd be surprised about this. 

Every system has a bottleneck but there is an ideal solution to all problems!

Tile Based Deferred Rendering works well for the WII U because it really can't afford to waste anymore bandwidth. Light Indexed Deferred Rendering with tiled light culling works well for the PS4/X1 because AMDs GCN implementation of it's compute shader allows it to cull the unnecessary lights more faster in a scene to save resources in general. 



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fatslob-:O on 24 November 2013
gmcmen said:


at this point why would any wiiu gamer care, most ports are worse then 360/ps3 versions and the console looks like it wont be getting any real third party support next year, the only thing i want for nintendo is to give me mario, zelda, f-zero, DK, metroid and starfox with top tier graphics from currentgen, just give me graphics that can match forza horizone, uncharted 3, lou and halo 4 and i won't complain but so far they haven't been able to do that.

Agreed. I want some games on the WII U but nintendo has being extremely slow in delivering them. All I want is mario kart, smash bros, and X as well. I'm pretty interested in SMT X FE. 



fatslob-:O on 24 November 2013
curl-6 said:

I would agree it's not really pushing the system.

Later games like Monolith Soft's X, and perhaps the game this thread is about, FAST Racing Neo, will do that.

@Bold I have a sinking feeling that they won't deliver on their premise. Hopefully they can make it more impressive than nano assault neo or otherwise I'll get disappointed. I want to have a AAA experience on a low budget so let's hope that shin'en can deliver alot of content to the table as well. 



curl-6 on 24 November 2013
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:

I would agree it's not really pushing the system.

Later games like Monolith Soft's X, and perhaps the game this thread is about, FAST Racing Neo, will do that.

@Bold I have a sinking feeling that they won't deliver on their premise. Hopefully they can make it more impressive than nano assault neo or otherwise I'll get disappointed. I want to have a AAA experience on a low budget so let's hope that shin'en can deliver alot of content to the table as well. 

 A 5 man team isn't going to be able to produce all the trappings of a AAA blockbuster, they just don't have the manpower.

It's pretty much guaranteed to a look a lot better than Nano Assault Neo though. Not only was NAN made when they had no experience with the hardware, but it was built on their old Wii/3DS era engine whereas FAST will be built on their new second gen Wii U-specific engine.



Roma on 24 November 2013

damn I forgot what this thread was about until curl mentioned it in his last post

cam in here hoping for some footage. I wonder when we will get some



    R.I.P Mr Iwata :'(

fatslob-:O on 24 November 2013
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:
curl-6 said:

I would agree it's not really pushing the system.

Later games like Monolith Soft's X, and perhaps the game this thread is about, FAST Racing Neo, will do that.

@Bold I have a sinking feeling that they won't deliver on their premise. Hopefully they can make it more impressive than nano assault neo or otherwise I'll get disappointed. I want to have a AAA experience on a low budget so let's hope that shin'en can deliver alot of content to the table as well. 

 A 5 man team isn't going to be able to produce all the trappings of a AAA blockbuster, they just don't have the manpower.

It's pretty much guaranteed to a look a lot better than Nano Assault Neo though. Not only was NAN made when they had no experience with the hardware, but it was built on their old Wii/3DS era engine whereas FAST will be built on their new second gen Wii U-specific engine.

I could care less for top notch voice acting and story but atleast give me alot of content. 

I don't want a game that just looks better! I want a game to have more content for my money while also being enjoyable too. Both forza 5 and killer instinct were disappointments because of the lack in content, not techincal showcases! Forza 5 looks like a current gen title and killer instinct is in 720p but that's not the issue! The most important parts of the games are enjoyment and replayability. If shien'en can't deliver alot of fun content then i'm going to be disappointed because of it.