twesterm said: libellule said: and yes, many nintendo fan bash FF7 because it is, in part, what killed the N64 (when other FF7 have pushed the Nintendo system) Find me one person that actually thinks that.

Most people don't actually admit that's their reason for disliking the game. I could find you someone but she's a complete idiot so I wouldn't bothering using her as evidence. Still fanboys disliking games for being on another console is quite common, especially with Nintendo fans from what I've seen on the internet, more evident with Xbox fans offline, but it certainly happens all the time. FFVII is a huge title, it sold amazingly well, received great reviews and is considered to be one of the greatest game of all time by many, any game of that status attracts attention for fanboys and they'll bash it. I've seen people ignorantly bash plenty of games from the IGN forums, to GAF and especially Gamefaqs. No one ever says "I hate FFVII cause it wasn't on N64" but people who clearly have never played it or given it a chance do hate it, just like many other popular titles out there.

 

Edouble24 said: Kasz216 said: Edouble24 said: Well in that case everyones favorite RPG can't be taken seriously because it was their first RPG apparently. I see what you guys are saying but it really doesn't connect because people only apply it to FFVII. if FFVII is your favorite RPG the first thing most FFVII haters say is "it was obviously your first RPG" but they never say that about any other games. FFVI sure has a ton of fans, as does Chrono Trigger, do all of those people have ignorant opinions because FFVI or CT were probably their first RPGs? Everyone starts somewhere, I don't see why someones first RPG being FFVII means you can't respect their opinion if FFVII is their favorite. You all had a first RPG as well... My first RPG was either Dragon's Quest 1 or some text based computer RPG. Not my favorite RPG ever. My favorite ever... is probably Earthbound. Though FF6 is close. The best every i'd put at FF6 or Chrono Trigger. SNES was a RPG beast. FF6 and CT weren't a lot of peoples first RPGS by the way. Check the sales. Those games were bought by RPG vets. Well thanks for helping me prove my point.

Your point however is kind of shallow. I'd say a lot of people who's favorite RPG was FF4, FF6 or Robotrek were people who played that RPG first. You definitly bump up your first RPG more then it should be. It's not always best. But often is once you get to the SNES era on.

The difference between people like me who started at the NES level was that you had to love RPGS to play them.

RPGs in the NES era had no story. At all. They weren't really complete. You basically got your story in the opening text wall. "Evil rules the world, bring the light back to the orbs ye light warrior."

Then everyone you talked to gave you 1 sentence of text.  Then you grinded and explored dungeons for bosses.

"What a nice day this is." "Garland has kidnapped the princess" etc.

From the SNES era on they actually had things like in game scenes where conversations were exchanged.

Basically the genre was improved and reinvented in a way it has yet to be again from the transition of 8 bit to 16 bit.

The jump in quality was drastic, and pretty much the only jump there has been in reinventing the enire genre.

The SNES era was the era where storyline mattered. You played NES RPGs solely for the gameplay.

Old School RPGs were half of what RPGs are today. 

Well when you say "Prime reason" you are saying one of the forefronts of why something is the way it is, Which I think is VERY debateable with the SNES and FF

Edouble24 said: twesterm said: libellule said: and yes, many nintendo fan bash FF7 because it is, in part, what killed the N64 (when other FF7 have pushed the Nintendo system) Find me one person that actually thinks that. Most people don't actually admit that's their reason for disliking the game. I could find you someone but she's a complete idiot so I wouldn't bothering using her as evidence. Still fanboys disliking games for being on another console is quite common, especially with Nintendo fans from what I've seen on the internet, more evident with Xbox fans offline, but it certainly happens all the time. FFVII is a huge title, it sold amazingly well, received great reviews and is considered to be one of the greatest game of all time by many, any game of that status attracts attention for fanboys and they'll bash it. I've seen people ignorantly bash plenty of games from the IGN forums, to GAF and especially Gamefaqs. No one ever says "I hate FFVII cause it wasn't on N64" but people who clearly have never played it or given it a chance do hate it, just like many other popular titles out there.

You get the same thing with games like Halo. It's massively popular so some gamers will go out of their way to bash the shit out of it. Personally, I really like Halo. I don't think it's the best FPS ever, but I enjoy it. I also thought FFVII was "okay". After playing some of the earlier FFs, it really let me down at points.

The difference in threads like these is that you have loads of people who are JRPG fanatics and they dislike the game for very specific reasons, not because it was the most popular. Hit a Halo thread and you'll see PC gamers openly mocking the game for the same reasons. Both are very valid reasons to dislike or underplay a game because the people speaking have the experience and knowledge to back up their claims, unlike frothing fanboys who hate something simply because it exists.

rocketpig said: Edouble24 said: twesterm said: libellule said: and yes, many nintendo fan bash FF7 because it is, in part, what killed the N64 (when other FF7 have pushed the Nintendo system) Find me one person that actually thinks that. Most people don't actually admit that's their reason for disliking the game. I could find you someone but she's a complete idiot so I wouldn't bothering using her as evidence. Still fanboys disliking games for being on another console is quite common, especially with Nintendo fans from what I've seen on the internet, more evident with Xbox fans offline, but it certainly happens all the time. FFVII is a huge title, it sold amazingly well, received great reviews and is considered to be one of the greatest game of all time by many, any game of that status attracts attention for fanboys and they'll bash it. I've seen people ignorantly bash plenty of games from the IGN forums, to GAF and especially Gamefaqs. No one ever says "I hate FFVII cause it wasn't on N64" but people who clearly have never played it or given it a chance do hate it, just like many other popular titles out there.  You get the same thing with games like Halo. It's massively popular so some gamers will go out of their way to bash the shit out of it. Personally, I really like Halo. I don't think it's the best FPS ever, but I enjoy it. I also thought FFVII was "okay". After playing some of the earlier FFs, it really let me down at points. The difference in threads like these is that you have loads of people who are JRPG fanatics and they dislike the game for very specific reasons, not because it was the most popular. Hit a Halo thread and you'll see PC gamers openly mocking the game for the same reasons. Both are very valid reasons to dislike or underplay a game because the people speaking have the experience and knowledge to back up their claims, unlike frothing fanboys who hate something simply because it exists.

oh I've said that the people in this thread seem to have legit opinions, I haven't bashed anyone in this thread, but the OP was asking about why people hate FFVII in general and this is one of the many reasons. Others dislike the story, others feel it ruined the FF series and some people just do it because it's 'cool' to hate popular things on the internet. But a lot of hardcore Nintendo fanboys(the stupid ones) have something against things like FFVII, Halo and GTA for no real reason. Just like most Xbox fanboys I know offline just call everything Nintendo 'gay'

And Kasz...If you're honestly gonna tell me that anyone that started playing RPGs from SNES and up have a blind opinion on their favorite RPG because it was their first one...that's just foolish. I know a lot of people that didn't start with FFVII that still find it to be the best. FFVII is well liked because it's a great game, no amount of foolish excuses as to why people like it wont change that. Really that argument exists mainly because people who can't accept the fact that other people disagree with them need to find a reason as to why the majority is uninformed or flat out stupid. 

 

marciosmg said: swyggi said: marciosmg said: Even though I only posted here before a few times (though I am constantly lurking), I just felt like throwing my 2 cents in. I have been playing FF since III (VI being my favorite game ever) and I have to say I don´t hate VII. I kinda liked VII, VIII and IX, but noticed a decline in quality from the SNES era. However, when I got to X and especially XII (didn´t even finish it), I hated it. Finally, the only thing I really remember being interesting in VII ( I haven´t played it in a long, long time) is that, if I remember correctly, when Cloud and the others are going for their final battle, Cloud makes this speech about how he is doing it to get Sephiroth and not save the world. I thought that it was this interesting change from heroes with an altruistic view of stopping the big bad villain and saving the world. Cloud just wanted revenge. P.S. - With the whole Aeris being kiled thing, I remember thinking several times through the game: Why can´t I just use Phoenix Down on her? Why? I know that´s silly, but that kinda of took some of the impact of the moment for me. Well, to each his own. *is lurking* >_><_<>_>down the road of life<_<>_><__>*roadblock* our journey ends here -_-   I´m sorry. I´m not american and english is not my first language. I honestly didn´t understand what you wrote. Were you making a joke?

 It's really just nonsense.  Some may find it funny, some may not, others may find it interesting.  Most seem to have a "wtf?" expression when I do it.  It's not really from any origin.

Kasz216 said: Edouble24 said: oh and Jenova isn't controlling Sephiroth it's the other way around. The story writer said that. Sephiroth is the one that killed Aeris not Jenova. Everytime you run into him he sends a piece of Jenova down to fight you and at the end he's the final boss not Jenova. He's the one responsible for most of the events in FFVII by his direct actions. Jenova was evil and he was influenced by her but not in the way of mind control. Sephiroth set to carry out what Jenova started not because she was controlling him but because that's what he wanted to do. Had he succeeded with his goal, he would have become a god, not Jenova. If there is a main villain other than Sephy in the game then it's gotta be Hojo, as he has a hand in almost everything that went down in the game. If you have to talk to the storywriter after playing the game to figure out what happened.... It didn't have a good story.

 Or...

 You're not smart enough to understand the story.

The answers to questions like these are all contained within the plot; the commentary from the writers just confirmed it.

FFVII has some flaws which I'm acutely aware of.  And based on the somewhat inconsistent work put out by the writers before and since, I have a suspicion that FFVII may have been something of an accidental masterpiece. But it's a masterpiece nonetheless, and anyone who claims otherwise isn't fit to judge it.

Sephiroth is Hojo and some random townsgirls child. (Says Hojo)
He has Jenova Cells inplanted in him, like many others. (Says.. Hojo and Sephiroth)
Jenova is evil alien of Doom (dun dun dun!) (Says... Everyone)
Sephiroth is apparently by far the most powerful despite being the child of a random and a scientist and despite others being mentioned getting cells (I beleive, if not mako), by the end of the game, Sephiroth > Jenova. Stupid weak evil alien of doom! (Says the game)

Cloud is a normal guy who wants to be big and tough. (Says his Childhood)
He gets killed by Sephiroth who plummets to his death as well with cloud IMPALED ON HIS SWORD. (Says Cutscene as he impales cloud and cloud plunges them both into giant death pool of mako)
His friends think he has amnesia and are afraid to tell him the truth because it will destroy him. (Says Tifa)
Somewhere in this story, both of them re-emerge as clones.

This storyline is masterful and epic to you?

Children seeking identity, adults finding out their origins or facing their past, hell, even the insanity I can buy, the insecurity, the loyalty, the self punishment, even the Ancients I can tolerate as being "Weird omni god like people who died cept one who dies from a swordwound". But when RPG's are like "clone clone dead clone hate clone dead", it fails at being epic by an enormous margin. Hell, even take out the "Sephiroth isn't the only one with Jenova Cells" and that portion of the story still fails quite nicely. Other portions of the game story are quite enjoyable, but never, under any circumstances, pretend you like the Cloud or Sephiroth story unless you are willing to admit it's because they are pretty.

Fuzzmosis said: Sephiroth is Hojo and some random townsgirls child. (Says Hojo) He has Jenova Cells inplanted in him, like many others. (Says.. Hojo and Sephiroth) Jenova is evil alien of Doom (dun dun dun!) (Says... Everyone) Sephiroth is apparently by far the most powerful despite being the child of a random and a scientist and despite others being mentioned getting cells (I beleive, if not mako), by the end of the game, Sephiroth > Jenova. Stupid weak evil alien of doom! (Says the game) Cloud is a normal guy who wants to be big and tough. (Says his Childhood) He gets killed by Sephiroth who plummets to his death as well with cloud IMPALED ON HIS SWORD. (Says Cutscene as he impales cloud and cloud plunges them both into giant death pool of mako) His friends think he has amnesia and are afraid to tell him the truth because it will destroy him. (Says Tifa) Somewhere in this story, both of them re-emerge as clones. This storyline is masterful and epic to you? Children seeking identity, adults finding out their origins or facing their past, hell, even the insanity I can buy, the insecurity, the loyalty, the self punishment, even the Ancients I can tolerate as being "Weird omni god like people who died cept one who dies from a swordwound". But when RPG's are like "clone clone dead clone hate clone dead", it fails at being epic by an enormous margin. Hell, even take out the "Sephiroth isn't the only one with Jenova Cells" and that portion of the story still fails quite nicely. Other portions of the game story are quite enjoyable, but never, under any circumstances, pretend you like the Cloud or Sephiroth story unless you are willing to admit it's because they are pretty.

Sephiroth was injected with the cells before birth which explains why he's superior to all the other clones. The others were all failed experiments to replicate Sephiroth without forcing the injection before birth.

And no your third grade dumbed down version of the story isn't masterful. I can take ANY RPG story and present it the way you did and make it seem shallow and boring. But it wasn't Cloud and Sephiroth that made the story for me, it was pretty much everything else, as well as how the characters acted. It was a great mix of comedy and being serious, I felt each character was distinctive and much more realistic than previous FF characters(for the most part).

 

Edouble24:

I highlighted the worst parts of the story. Had you actually read my post, you would read the exact phrase "Other portions of the game story are quite enjoyable". That exact phrase. EXACT PHRASE. You quoted me saying that.

So, I appreciate you calling my opinion dumbed down and then repeating it, without the deserved bashing of the cloud and Sephiroth portion of it. Any time FF7 is mentioned, that portion needs to be buried and burned. So, once more, I thank you.