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Forums - Nintendo Discussion - NeoGAF: Wii U GPU 160 ALUs, 8 TMUs and 8 ROPs

fatslob-:O on 08 November 2013
fallen said:
fatslob-:O said:
fallen said:
fatslob-:O said:
fallen said:
ViktorBKK said:
F0X said:
ViktorBKK said:

The Wii U has more ram, thats it. Everywhere else it is lagging. You obviously do not understand the correlation between semiconductor lithography and power consumption.

Wii U : 40/45 nm & 40 Watts

PS360 Slim Versions: 40/45 nm & ~100 watts

Do the math.


Care to elaborate more? I'm led to believe that technology is supposed to become more effiecent over time.

Chip designs get more efficient over time, but engineers are not wizards. Especially when it comes to GPUs, where things are highly paralellized. You can improve a design and gain maybe 15% performance under the same thermal ceiling. You can't ever get 100%. Ever seen a 100W AMD card beat a 200W nVidia card? When both cards are in the same proccess node, it cannot happen. Also consider that the GPUs from all 3 current gen consoles, come from the same fab(TSMC).


not really true because smartphones are approaching ps3 power and they draw like a watt or two.

 

mind you, i believe the wii u is quite weak. just correcting you.

Not even close!


Not even close what?

 

Go look up the benches. Even something like Tegra 4 is as powerful as a 7800 GTX which is the GPU in PS3.

 

Let alone Project Logan, Nvidia's next mobile GPU, which they explicitely state is more powerful than PS3 (google Project Logan).

You may not see mobile games that look as good as PS360 yet, but that's for many reasons. The raw power is increasibgly there.

Project logan is gonna fail like the rest of the shitty tegra chipsets.  

How can they get more effieciency with the same node ? 

Huh?

Yeah Tegra fails, but that doesn't matter. All the other competing chipsets are just as powerful it was just an example (also I was wrong and edited, Tegra 4 isn't as powerful as PS3 GPU, it's the newest Qaulcomm  SOC)

They get more efficiency from the same node with better designs? I dont know, for whatever reason mobile performance increases extremely quickly.

Probably because it's relatively low to begin with, so there's more room to grow.

There's also a die size variable. A 400mm GPU on 28nm should be 2X as powerful as a 200mm one, all else equal. The max current size is around 550mm. But if you're below that you can increase power just by getting bigger (more transistors) on the same node. So if Qaulcomm makes a mobile SOC that's 100mm, and then the next iteration they make 150mm, then the next one 200, etc, they can grow that way.

 

The snap dragon 800 has somewhere around 120 gflops so that's still not very close to the sub hd twins this generation.

What I meant by that is how can they extract more performance with the same node and even then 28nm is very mature. 

These phone manufacturers have to meet strict TDP. That means the phone may not go over 3 watts for the most part.

That won't happen because they absolutely have to meet strict bTDP otherwise the phone will overheat pretty easily.



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fatslob-:O on 08 November 2013
curl-6 said:
oni-link said:
curl-6 said:
oni-link said:

or like this

 

and this:


Don't forget the best looking Wii U game released so far:

OH HELL YEAH!!!!

Wii U games definitely LOOK way better than PS360 (note I stopped talking about specs and just how they look for me...it's all about the games)

Even if in terms of specs, the developers of the game, Frozenbyte, have outright said that PS3/360 could not run the Wii U version.

But yes, there is much more to how good a game looks than the amount of FLOPS involved.

I'm glad some of us came to a consensus that a system can do more with less.



Proxy-Pie on 08 November 2013
fatslob-:O said:

I'm glad some of us came to a consensus that a system can do more with less.

it's doing more with more.



fatslob-:O on 08 November 2013
MohammadBadir said:
fatslob-:O said:

I'm glad some of us came to a consensus that a system can do more with less.

it's doing more with more.

@Bold I don't know about that.

I can be pretty sure that it's achieving more with less. 



Proxy-Pie on 08 November 2013
fatslob-:O said:
MohammadBadir said:
fatslob-:O said:

I'm glad some of us came to a consensus that a system can do more with less.

it's doing more with more.

@Bold I don't know about that.

I can be pretty sure that it's achieving more with less. 

achieving better looking games than the PS360 with more power than the PS360.

though if you mean the 4Bone, of course.



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fatslob-:O on 08 November 2013
MohammadBadir said:
fatslob-:O said:
MohammadBadir said:
fatslob-:O said:

I'm glad some of us came to a consensus that a system can do more with less.

it's doing more with more.

@Bold I don't know about that.

I can be pretty sure that it's achieving more with less. 

achieving better looking games than the PS360 with more power than the PS360.

though if you mean the 4Bone, of course.

@Bold A more appropriate term would be better architecture/efficiency. 



Proxy-Pie on 08 November 2013
fatslob-:O said:
MohammadBadir said:
fatslob-:O said:
MohammadBadir said:
fatslob-:O said:

I'm glad some of us came to a consensus that a system can do more with less.

it's doing more with more.

@Bold I don't know about that.

I can be pretty sure that it's achieving more with less. 

achieving better looking games than the PS360 with more power than the PS360.

though if you mean the 4Bone, of course.

@Bold A more appropriate term would be better architecture/efficiency. 

dude, it's more powerful than them, get over it already -.-



curl-6 on 08 November 2013
fatslob-:O said:
MohammadBadir said:
fatslob-:O said:

I'm glad some of us came to a consensus that a system can do more with less.

it's doing more with more.

@Bold I don't know about that.

I can be pretty sure that it's achieving more with less. 

Depends what we're saying it has less of. It's got less CPU clock speed, less electricity consumption, and possibly less FLOPS, but the original Xbox had less FLOPS than the PS2 and look how that turned out.

On the other hand it has more RAM, more eDRAM, newer GPU features, more CPU cache, more instruction per cycle.



fatslob-:O on 08 November 2013
curl-6 said:
fatslob-:O said:
MohammadBadir said:
fatslob-:O said:

I'm glad some of us came to a consensus that a system can do more with less.

it's doing more with more.

@Bold I don't know about that.

I can be pretty sure that it's achieving more with less. 

Depends what we're saying it has less of. It's got less CPU clock speed, less electricity consumption, and possibly less FLOPS, but the original Xbox had less FLOPS than the PS2 and look how that turned out.

On the other hand it has more RAM, more eDRAM, newer GPU features, more CPU cache, more instruction per cycle.

@Bold The IPC is worse than bulldozer no offence. 

I agree with everthing else but the reason why the xbox won has to do with it having an insane fillrate such as pixel and texture. 

You guys should be depending on it's newer architecture, not it's raw power!



fatslob-:O on 08 November 2013
MohammadBadir said:
fatslob-:O said:
MohammadBadir said:
fatslob-:O said:
MohammadBadir said:
fatslob-:O said:

I'm glad some of us came to a consensus that a system can do more with less.

it's doing more with more.

@Bold I don't know about that.

I can be pretty sure that it's achieving more with less. 

achieving better looking games than the PS360 with more power than the PS360.

though if you mean the 4Bone, of course.

@Bold A more appropriate term would be better architecture/efficiency. 

dude, it's more powerful than them, get over it already -.-

It's only more "powerful" through newer rendering methods but not by just bare fillrates and raw shading power. There's more to a GPU than meets the eyes.