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Forums - Nintendo - NintenDomination - Sorry VGC, But Your Thread Is In Another Castle

 

Rate Conegamer's Reign

10 81 70.43%
 
9 4 3.48%
 
8 2 1.74%
 
7 3 2.61%
 
6 0 0%
 
5 1 0.87%
 
4 0 0%
 
3 0 0%
 
2 1 0.87%
 
1 8 6.96%
 
Total:100
lestatdark said:
supernihilist said:
lestatdark said:

Texture wise both Prime and Prime 2 GC were about the same, probably Prime 2 had a slightly larger poly count as the power suit seems a bit more detailed. Enemy size was about the same, as you had massive enemies on Prime already, such as Flaaghra, the mother Sheegoth and Thardus. Heck even the first form of Metroid Prime was massive.


i think it has to be all that new decoration elements they added to make look Ether unique. you know all that weird stuff sorrounding doors and such.

it has more visual effects going on as well such as transparent plants, sand effects etc.

That's probably the main reason. While the environments on Prime were gorgeous, they didn't have as much stuff populating them as the environments on Prime 2 (especially the environemnts of Dark Aether)

They probably sacrificed effects for more variety. Prime was already stretching the capacities of the GC when it came out due to the things it was capable of doing.

Which makes me wonder even more as to why they "downgraded" the game for the Trilogy re-release. I mean, they didn't touch up any of the textures and they removed some of the effects and it makes no sense at all, since Prime 2 has all of those plus graphical enhancements.


maybe because they made it native 480p whereas the first 2 Primes were native 480i...that must be. Still Wiis greater power should allow for it without sacrifices...



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AwakeandAlive said:
lestatdark said:
AwakeandAlive said:
can somebody tell me why nintendo ( gamefreak) does not want to make a "real" pokemon for Wii U. I think Pokemon Z would sell very well on WiiU.

The main game pokemon formula is suited to handhelds. You can collect pokemon whenever on the go and since it's portable, the inevitable grind won't be too much of a burden because you can do it anywhere, anytime. 

Now, if they were to make a new Pokemon Stadium, that would be a very good approach, especially if they made it so that both a theoretical Pokemon Stadium 3 and Pokemon X/Y/Z share the same pokemon bank account. That would streamline a lot of the issues that turned off some pokemon fans from the Stadium/Battle Revolution games.


but they could it like capcom with monster hunter 3.   Pokemon Z on WiiU and if you want, you can transfer your pokemon to X Y on 3DS. I would love to see my pokemon team in HD *-* 

But even Monster Hunter is shifting it's approach to the handheld department, hence why MH4 released first on the 3DS. Those type of games are much more suited to an handheld environment than a console one. Given that the network infrastructures on portable consoles are leaps and bounds to what they used to be, games that encourage major grinding and player-to-player interactions are gonna become more popular on those same consoles. 

I would love to see my pokemon team in HD as well, don't get me wrong, but that's why I prefer it to be on a Pokemon Stadium-type of game. Give me a pokemon HD game which it's main focus are the battles, in which there are  need to use assets and graphical power to animate different areas like a main game would have to use and put all that power into animating the pokemon, the moves and the arenas. That would be amazing for me.



Current PC Build

CPU - i7 8700K 3.7 GHz (4.7 GHz turbo) 6 cores OC'd to 5.2 GHz with Watercooling (Hydro Series H110i) | MB - Gigabyte Z370 HD3P ATX | Gigabyte GTX 1080ti Gaming OC BLACK 11G (1657 MHz Boost Core / 11010 MHz Memory) | RAM - Corsair DIMM 32GB DDR4, 2400 MHz | PSU - Corsair CX650M (80+ Bronze) 650W | Audio - Asus Essence STX II 7.1 | Monitor - Samsung U28E590D 4K UHD, Freesync, 1 ms, 60 Hz, 28"

supernihilist said:
lestatdark said:
supernihilist said:
lestatdark said:

Texture wise both Prime and Prime 2 GC were about the same, probably Prime 2 had a slightly larger poly count as the power suit seems a bit more detailed. Enemy size was about the same, as you had massive enemies on Prime already, such as Flaaghra, the mother Sheegoth and Thardus. Heck even the first form of Metroid Prime was massive.


i think it has to be all that new decoration elements they added to make look Ether unique. you know all that weird stuff sorrounding doors and such.

it has more visual effects going on as well such as transparent plants, sand effects etc.

That's probably the main reason. While the environments on Prime were gorgeous, they didn't have as much stuff populating them as the environments on Prime 2 (especially the environemnts of Dark Aether)

They probably sacrificed effects for more variety. Prime was already stretching the capacities of the GC when it came out due to the things it was capable of doing.

Which makes me wonder even more as to why they "downgraded" the game for the Trilogy re-release. I mean, they didn't touch up any of the textures and they removed some of the effects and it makes no sense at all, since Prime 2 has all of those plus graphical enhancements.


maybe because they made it native 480p whereas the first 2 Primes were native 480i...that must be. Still Wiis greater power should allow for it without sacrifices...

Prime 3 graphical lacks were probably due to it releasing so early in the Wii life cycle. If they had a few more years to figure out the hardware and the increments they could have used, then I don't doubt the game could have been much more polished in that aspect.

Just look at DKC:R. It uses the same Prime engine and has much more shaders, lighting effects and better textures than Corruption.



Current PC Build

CPU - i7 8700K 3.7 GHz (4.7 GHz turbo) 6 cores OC'd to 5.2 GHz with Watercooling (Hydro Series H110i) | MB - Gigabyte Z370 HD3P ATX | Gigabyte GTX 1080ti Gaming OC BLACK 11G (1657 MHz Boost Core / 11010 MHz Memory) | RAM - Corsair DIMM 32GB DDR4, 2400 MHz | PSU - Corsair CX650M (80+ Bronze) 650W | Audio - Asus Essence STX II 7.1 | Monitor - Samsung U28E590D 4K UHD, Freesync, 1 ms, 60 Hz, 28"

lestatdark said:
supernihilist said:
lestatdark said:
supernihilist said:
lestatdark said:

Texture wise both Prime and Prime 2 GC were about the same, probably Prime 2 had a slightly larger poly count as the power suit seems a bit more detailed. Enemy size was about the same, as you had massive enemies on Prime already, such as Flaaghra, the mother Sheegoth and Thardus. Heck even the first form of Metroid Prime was massive.


i think it has to be all that new decoration elements they added to make look Ether unique. you know all that weird stuff sorrounding doors and such.

it has more visual effects going on as well such as transparent plants, sand effects etc.

That's probably the main reason. While the environments on Prime were gorgeous, they didn't have as much stuff populating them as the environments on Prime 2 (especially the environemnts of Dark Aether)

They probably sacrificed effects for more variety. Prime was already stretching the capacities of the GC when it came out due to the things it was capable of doing.

Which makes me wonder even more as to why they "downgraded" the game for the Trilogy re-release. I mean, they didn't touch up any of the textures and they removed some of the effects and it makes no sense at all, since Prime 2 has all of those plus graphical enhancements.


maybe because they made it native 480p whereas the first 2 Primes were native 480i...that must be. Still Wiis greater power should allow for it without sacrifices...

Prime 3 graphical lacks were probably due to it releasing so early in the Wii life cycle. If they had a few more years to figure out the hardware and the increments they could have used, then I don't doubt the game could have been much more polished in that aspect.

Just look at DKC:R. It uses the same Prime engine and has much more shaders, lighting effects and better textures than Corruption.

No i mean they made for the Trilogy the first two Primes run in 480p. that is a important resolution upgrade that sure requires some decent amount of raw calculation power...



supernihilist said:
lestatdark said:

Prime 3 graphical lacks were probably due to it releasing so early in the Wii life cycle. If they had a few more years to figure out the hardware and the increments they could have used, then I don't doubt the game could have been much more polished in that aspect.

Just look at DKC:R. It uses the same Prime engine and has much more shaders, lighting effects and better textures than Corruption.

No i mean they made for the Trilogy the first two Primes run in 480p. that is a important resolution upgrade that sure requires some decent amount of raw calculation power...

Ah yes. But that being so, it even makes less sense that Prime 1 suffered downgrades and Prime 2 looks better than the GC version.



Current PC Build

CPU - i7 8700K 3.7 GHz (4.7 GHz turbo) 6 cores OC'd to 5.2 GHz with Watercooling (Hydro Series H110i) | MB - Gigabyte Z370 HD3P ATX | Gigabyte GTX 1080ti Gaming OC BLACK 11G (1657 MHz Boost Core / 11010 MHz Memory) | RAM - Corsair DIMM 32GB DDR4, 2400 MHz | PSU - Corsair CX650M (80+ Bronze) 650W | Audio - Asus Essence STX II 7.1 | Monitor - Samsung U28E590D 4K UHD, Freesync, 1 ms, 60 Hz, 28"

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this weeks North American e-shop update

http://www.nintendolife.com/news/2014/01/nintendo_download_23rd_january_north_america



AwakeandAlive said:
can somebody tell me why nintendo ( gamefreak) does not want to make a "real" pokemon for Wii U. I think Pokemon Z would sell very well on WiiU.


Because it would be harder to make and sell less copies than a handheld iteration. A better question would be why Nintendo doesn't have another studio like Genius Sonority make a Stadium or Colliseum-style game.



Salnax said:
AwakeandAlive said:
can somebody tell me why nintendo ( gamefreak) does not want to make a "real" pokemon for Wii U. I think Pokemon Z would sell very well on WiiU.


Because it would be harder to make and sell less copies than a handheld iteration. A better question would be why Nintendo doesn't have another studio like Genius Sonority make a Stadium or Colliseum-style game.

Do you mean Battle Revolution-style game? Because the Colosseum games main approach was hardly any good and the VS. Modes were just basically a re-skin of the Stadium VS Modes.



Current PC Build

CPU - i7 8700K 3.7 GHz (4.7 GHz turbo) 6 cores OC'd to 5.2 GHz with Watercooling (Hydro Series H110i) | MB - Gigabyte Z370 HD3P ATX | Gigabyte GTX 1080ti Gaming OC BLACK 11G (1657 MHz Boost Core / 11010 MHz Memory) | RAM - Corsair DIMM 32GB DDR4, 2400 MHz | PSU - Corsair CX650M (80+ Bronze) 650W | Audio - Asus Essence STX II 7.1 | Monitor - Samsung U28E590D 4K UHD, Freesync, 1 ms, 60 Hz, 28"

If I had to make an honest guess about the Metroid Prime Trilogy thing, it would be space issues on the disc.

The original Metroid Prime was about 1.2 GB, barely fitting on the GameCube disc. Metroid Prime 2 was about the same size. Metroid Prime 3 was about 4.4 GB. In total, that's about 6.8 GB. If you assume that the first two games need to be adjusted to account for being on a new platform with a different native resolution and may also have a new control scheme, it may be easier to just write new data on top of the old games instead of completely rewriting the existing code. So between that and the few new things included in the Trilogy, that could be another 1 GB. That's 7.8 GB in total.

The standard Wii disc only held 4.7 GB of data.

In order to fit the entire trilogy on a single disc, Retro must have used a double-layer disc, something that the Wii probably isn't designed to work well with. And even then, I don't think dual-layer DVD's can actually hold twice as much info, only about 70% more or something.

So 4.7 times 1.7 is about 8 GB... barely enough room to contain the entire trilogy.



tl;dr The Wii hardware wasn't the problem, disc size probably was.



Salnax said:
If I had to make an honest guess about the Metroid Prime Trilogy thing, it would be space issues on the disc.

The original Metroid Prime was about 1.2 GB, barely fitting on the GameCube disc. Metroid Prime 2 was about the same size. Metroid Prime 3 was about 4.4 GB. In total, that's about 6.8 GB. If you assume that the first two games need to be adjusted to account for being on a new platform with a different native resolution and may also have a new control scheme, it may be easier to just write new data on top of the old games instead of completely rewriting the existing code. So between that and the few new things included in the Trilogy, that could be another 1 GB. That's 7.8 GB in total.

The standard Wii disc only held 4.7 GB of data.

In order to fit the entire trilogy on a single disc, Retro must have used a double-layer disc, something that the Wii probably isn't designed to work well with. And even then, I don't think dual-layer DVD's can actually hold twice as much info, only about 70% more or something.

So 4.7 times 1.7 is about 8 GB... barely enough room to contain the entire trilogy.



tl;dr The Wii hardware wasn't the problem, disc size probably was.

I thought about disc size, but that still wouldn't explain the differences between Prime and Prime 2. If both games occupied the same amount of disk space, that means they would be using the same amount of assets, which doesn't happen in the Trilogy. 

Poor optimization would be my biggest bet. Since the original Prime 2 lacked in the graphical department, in contrast with Prime, they focused more on optimizing it/enhancing it than Prime, but they didn't account to what increasing the output resolution to 480p would do to Prime. The aliasing differences alone point to the different approach that both games had. 

Samus suit on Prime looks extremely grainy and jaggy on my 1080p screen, while the suit on Prime 2 has almost no jaggies and no grainy look, pretty similar to how the GC version Prime looked (and i'm discounting the texture work that it had for Trilogy)



Current PC Build

CPU - i7 8700K 3.7 GHz (4.7 GHz turbo) 6 cores OC'd to 5.2 GHz with Watercooling (Hydro Series H110i) | MB - Gigabyte Z370 HD3P ATX | Gigabyte GTX 1080ti Gaming OC BLACK 11G (1657 MHz Boost Core / 11010 MHz Memory) | RAM - Corsair DIMM 32GB DDR4, 2400 MHz | PSU - Corsair CX650M (80+ Bronze) 650W | Audio - Asus Essence STX II 7.1 | Monitor - Samsung U28E590D 4K UHD, Freesync, 1 ms, 60 Hz, 28"