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Forums - Sony - Shuhei Yoshida Confirms That Upscaler On PlayStation 4 Is Hardware Based

brendude13 on 01 November 2013
michael_stutzer said:
Arcturus said:
What does this mean, and how does it benefit me?

The PS4 Battlefield 4 is 900p upscaled, while the Xbone version 720p upscaled. The upscaling is done by the GPU, meaning hardware, in both systems. The first DF article botched the captures and they concluded that PS4 is using software for upscaling, which is generally inferior because it also uses system resources. Of course, this was wrong. They later published another article due to backlash and said that the PS4 has the  significantly sharper, crisper, and therefore better image. Xbox seems to have a sharpening filter applied to compensate, which causes a lot of jaggies.

Where did DF say the PS4 wasn't using software for upscaling?



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ethomaz on 01 November 2013

globalisateur said:

But the XOne is supposed to have the same FXAA method of PS4's and the textures on XOne are the same (minus the sharpening effect) thant PC's and PS4's.

Ignoring the resolution and the sharper look, XOne textures have as much details as PC's. But PS4's loose details. it does. I even saw on neogaf a PC upscaled 900p to 1080p screenshot of BF4 with FXAA applied and textures (and the whole scene) looked sharper than PS4's and looked like Xone's.

I really notice blur on videogames. The best image (IMO) is a native one with zero Post effect blur. Developpers should not even add FXAA  on an already blurred upscaled image. But here on PS4 it is too much. Upscaling + FXAA + additionnal blur they really pushed it too far. And FXAA doesn't even detect edges but detect high contrasted subpixels anyway. I would prefere MLAA which really detect edges. The MLAA on some PS3 games was really awesome. That is the future of antialiasing, removing ONLY edges, not sub-pixels details.

I am currently playing Metroid prime on Wii at 480p. There is no AA on this game. And the upcsaling my TV operates is already too much, I found the game too blurry. In fact Post process AA removes 5% of defaults on any image but add 100% blur on it.

PS4/PC versions have the same amount of details... are you trying to say Xbone version have more details than both?



ethomaz on 01 November 2013

brendude13 said:

Where did DF say the PS4 wasn't using software for upscaling?

"This should surely be a home run for Sony's console, but what is likely to be a software-based upscale to 1080p delivers less-than-stellar returns, and for better or worse leaves the Xbox One with an often crisper looking, albeit much more aliased image."

DF article is terrible... even the capture was fucked up. 



michael_stutzer on 01 November 2013
brendude13 said:
michael_stutzer said:
Arcturus said:
What does this mean, and how does it benefit me?

The PS4 Battlefield 4 is 900p upscaled, while the Xbone version 720p upscaled. The upscaling is done by the GPU, meaning hardware, in both systems. The first DF article botched the captures and they concluded that PS4 is using software for upscaling, which is generally inferior because it also uses system resources. Of course, this was wrong. They later published another article due to backlash and said that the PS4 has the  significantly sharper, crisper, and therefore better image. Xbox seems to have a sharpening filter applied to compensate, which causes a lot of jaggies.

Where did DF say the PS4 wasn't using software for upscaling?

They still seem to believe that it uses software for upscaling. They just published an article saying that the differences are pretty obvious. This wasn't the tone in their early articles. 



globalisateur on 01 November 2013
ethomaz said:

globalisateur said:

But the XOne is supposed to have the same FXAA method of PS4's and the textures on XOne are the same (minus the sharpening effect) thant PC's and PS4's.

Ignoring the resolution and the sharper look, XOne textures have as much details as PC's. But PS4's loose details. it does. I even saw on neogaf a PC upscaled 900p to 1080p screenshot of BF4 with FXAA applied and textures (and the whole scene) looked sharper than PS4's and looked like Xone's.

I really notice blur on videogames. The best image (IMO) is a native one with zero Post effect blur. Developpers should not even add FXAA  on an already blurred upscaled image. But here on PS4 it is too much. Upscaling + FXAA + additionnal blur they really pushed it too far. And FXAA doesn't even detect edges but detect high contrasted subpixels anyway. I would prefere MLAA which really detect edges. The MLAA on some PS3 games was really awesome. That is the future of antialiasing, removing ONLY edges, not sub-pixels details.

I am currently playing Metroid prime on Wii at 480p. There is no AA on this game. And the upcsaling my TV operates is already too much, I found the game too blurry. In fact Post process AA removes 5% of defaults on any image but add 100% blur on it.

PS4/PC versions have the same amount of details... are you trying to say Xbone version have more details than both?


I did not say that. The 3 versions use the same resolution of textures (on some screenshots anyway). Hence most of the textures are middle res, there are no high res textures like for Killzone SF, so the textures have the same amount of details XOne vs PC, that is a fact. I can ignore a sharpening or constrasting effect and notice only the details of the textures. Details of XOne (of the texture) are (approximately) the same as PC's as it should be on middle res assets whatever a (slight) difference of resolution and upscaling are in effect.

But PS4 textures on some images evidently loose significant details Vs PC and XOne. But it should not as FXAA does not apply (that much) on already low res relatively soft textures. It is really subtle, not suprising if you don't notice it. Look at the 4th image on DF faceoff, the head of the black guy on the left; it is really obvious on this one, less on other materials. But once I noticed it, I saw it on ALL the footage I've seen on Internet (when there was a comparison Vs PC or XOne).

Anyway I am not apparently the only one (ignoring the subjective loud XOne fanboys) who noticed it. And why would DF, not only sharpen the XOne but blur the PS4 images? That would be really stupid. Anyway I noticed it on others videos than DF's.



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ethomaz on 01 November 2013

globalisateur said:

I did not say that. The 3 versions use the same resolution of textures (on some screenshots anyway). Hence most of the textures are middle res, there are no high res textures like for Killzone SF, so the textures have the same amount of details XOne vs PC, that is a fact. I can ignore a sharpening or constrasting effect and notice only the details of the textures. Details of XOne (of the texture) are (approximately) the same as PC's as it should be on middle res assets whatever a (slight) difference of resolution and upscaling are in effect.

But PS4 textures on some images evidently loose significant details Vs PC and XOne. But it should not as FXAA does not apply (that much) on already low res relatively soft textures. It is really subtle, not suprising if you don't notice it. Look at the 4th image on DF faceoff, the head of the black guy on the left; it is really obvious on this one, less on other materials. But once I noticed it, I saw it on ALL the footage I've seen on Internet (when there was a comparison Vs PC or XOne).

Anyway I am not apparently the only one (ignoring the subjective loud XOne fanboys) who noticed it. And why would DF, not only sharpen the XOne but blur the PS4 images? That would be really stupid. Anyway I noticed it on others videos than DF's.

No. You are confunsing... PS4 versions looks exactly like PC... Xbone version is darker and different.



kabamarutr on 01 November 2013

In which way is hardware upscale better than software?



This, I stole from grandpa...It's called soap.

ethomaz on 01 November 2013
kabamarutr said:
In which way is hardware upscale better than software?

It is faster and doesn't use CPU processing.



kabamarutr on 01 November 2013
ethomaz said:
kabamarutr said:
In which way is hardware upscale better than software?

It is faster and doesn't use CPU processing.


Does it bring better results? Or is it that it just doesn't burden the CPU, allowing it work on its maximum potential?



This, I stole from grandpa...It's called soap.

Teflon02 on 01 November 2013

Let me put this better. PS3 vs 360, On PS3 whenever you started a game, the system would flip through resolutions to see which resolution is used and compatible on the software. Software base upscalers would make the image flip back into 1080p on PS3 and your TV will notify you that you're in 1080p (most TV's so, but not all tell you). If the game only was programed at 720p, the PS3 would flip into 720p and the TV would have to upscale itself making images look slightly pixelated in alot of cases. On Xbox 360, the system starts in 1 resolution and stays in that one resolution whether you start a game, a app or or in the menu because it upscales at a hardware level, making things alot simpler. It's why alot of the time earlier on in the gen PS3 (Edit: Wrote PS4 before by accident lol) games had more pixelation compared to Xbox. Xbox's games had AA on software being upscaled at a hardware level making the game look alot more smooth while using less power to do so. Only a few cases Where PS3 beat it out like FFXIII etc. This is a good thing now.