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Forums - Microsoft - TRUE XB1 vs PS4 spec comparison

dsgrue3 on 10 October 2013
g911turbo said:

And BTW, your power band of the engine remands the same actually (Dyno can show this, power is area under the curve (INTEGRAL if you want to get mathematical)), its when and where in that power band you are that can change (GEAR Ratios, etc).  

Actually, that is why some cars with a PEAK HP/Torque number that is higher than another car will actually be slower than the other car to 100MPH.  WHY?  Because the other car sustains power across the band (RPM range) better.   Sometimes also known as a "flat" vs. peaky curve. 

 

Keeping me honest. I will have to be more diligent in the future about ensuring my wording is appropriate for this topic.



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Subie_Greg on 10 October 2013

All this talk of specs

And no talk of BALANCE

Thread failed



g911turbo on 10 October 2013
pr3st00 said:
The true comparison is: there's no secret sauce, cloud or anything else which could make up for the raw power advantage of PS4. Even MS fans should know that.

That doesn't mean the console is doomed, we have seen weakest consoles to succeed already. By having a weaker (and more expensive) console, MS will have to offer good games, online service and promotions to compensate for. We still don't know how the raw power difference will translate to the actual game appearance, the only problem is if the different becomes really huge, maybe equal to the 40% value which is currently estimated.

Personally, I'd love to see WIIU resurrecting and xbox1 doing well too. Competition is what bring us good products. But if I had to bet all my money in a console, PS4 would be the chosen one.

Good post.  Although MS does appear to have a few more hardware based co-processors in their APU, which could bridge the gap a bit.  Still, highly likely that PS4 will have an edge in terms of graphics fidelity. 

Bolded.  Agree.  Although if the payback in Vegas was good enough, I might go in on the Wii U haha.  After all, betting on the favorite never really pays back well.



Frequency on 10 October 2013
kirby007 said:
fatslob-:O said:
fallen said:
RenCutypoison said:
fallen said:

X1:

e) 1.75 ghz Jaguar (Plus SHAPE audio chip likely ~1 CPU core of audio processing, +cloud support which we will ignore for now but could offload things like AI from X1 CPU in the future)

 

Reading shit again.

Saying cloud support on hardware side is stupid. PS4 and Wii U are connected to the internet too.

Can you point me to where Sony and (LOL) Nintendo execs mention their array of servers set up and offered to developers to help their consoles?

 

That's really the difference here. MS has their Azure cloud infrastructure ready to go, because it's a part of their business.  Someone will bring up Sony's Gakai here, but that's complelety different tech. It's more in line with what Microsoft calls "Rio" (cloud streaming service, which they demonstrated streaming Halo 4 to a windows phone)

 

I did not include Cloud in the comparison anyway, simply mentioned it as an aside. We will see. But I also think it's silly to pretend it doesn't exist. I'd say more that the jury is out how much it will help.

 

Even if it simply is used for dedicated servers for every multiplayer game, that alone saves CPU. I think AI might be another lowhanging fruit to offload from the local CPU, but again without any proof yet, I dont include it in my spec comparison. The picture could change in 2-3 years though.

 

 

MS Azure won't do shit for graphics just so you know otherwise they would be losing billions upons billions and that would be the end of the xbox divison. 

Indirectly it will, so stop being subborn

I BAKE 5 CAKES IN ONE OVEN ( with capacity 5 )

THEN SUDDENLY THE BAKER OFFERS TO BAKE TWO (2)

SO THAT OPENS 2 SLOTS IN MY OVEN WHICH I NOW CAN USE FOR PIZZAPIECHUTNEY

SO I WILL HAVE 5 CAKES AND TWO PIZZAPIECHUTNEYS


A more accurate analogy would be that you are cooking some pizzas, and sometimes you buy whole peppers (offline) and sometimes you buy 'remotely chopped (chopped by someone else)' peppers, (online consistent worlds) or sometimes you call your friend dave who comes over and chops them with you (online with cloud), both buying choppee peppers and having dave help you chop them saves a little bit of time and frees you up to do other things.

 

but in the grand scheme of things your neighbour has a better oven that cooks a little faster (ps4) so even though you can theoretically make a pizza a little faster by not doing everything yourself, ultimately it isn't as good as having a faster cooking oven.

 

Besides that pesky dave won't always be available to everyone cooking a pizza and sometimes he might take a while to come over, and there's always the possibility of your neighbour asking his unemployed friend guy kai to lend a hand in the future.



jlmurph2 on 10 October 2013

Why does noone understand that the majority of consumers don't give a fuck about specs, its about games and features. Both systems have games, both systems have features. Some better than the other. People will buy what they want to buy, talking about specs won't change their minds. Reviews of the full experience will.



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kirby007 on 10 October 2013
Frequency said:
kirby007 said:
fatslob-:O said:
fallen said:
RenCutypoison said:
fallen said:

X1:

e) 1.75 ghz Jaguar (Plus SHAPE audio chip likely ~1 CPU core of audio processing, +cloud support which we will ignore for now but could offload things like AI from X1 CPU in the future)

 

Reading shit again.

Saying cloud support on hardware side is stupid. PS4 and Wii U are connected to the internet too.

Can you point me to where Sony and (LOL) Nintendo execs mention their array of servers set up and offered to developers to help their consoles?

 

That's really the difference here. MS has their Azure cloud infrastructure ready to go, because it's a part of their business.  Someone will bring up Sony's Gakai here, but that's complelety different tech. It's more in line with what Microsoft calls "Rio" (cloud streaming service, which they demonstrated streaming Halo 4 to a windows phone)

 

I did not include Cloud in the comparison anyway, simply mentioned it as an aside. We will see. But I also think it's silly to pretend it doesn't exist. I'd say more that the jury is out how much it will help.

 

Even if it simply is used for dedicated servers for every multiplayer game, that alone saves CPU. I think AI might be another lowhanging fruit to offload from the local CPU, but again without any proof yet, I dont include it in my spec comparison. The picture could change in 2-3 years though.

 

 

MS Azure won't do shit for graphics just so you know otherwise they would be losing billions upons billions and that would be the end of the xbox divison. 

Indirectly it will, so stop being subborn

I BAKE 5 CAKES IN ONE OVEN ( with capacity 5 )

THEN SUDDENLY THE BAKER OFFERS TO BAKE TWO (2)

SO THAT OPENS 2 SLOTS IN MY OVEN WHICH I NOW CAN USE FOR PIZZAPIECHUTNEY

SO I WILL HAVE 5 CAKES AND TWO PIZZAPIECHUTNEYS


A more accurate analogy would be that you are cooking some pizzas, and sometimes you buy whole peppers (offline) and sometimes you buy 'remotely chopped (chopped by someone else)' peppers, (online consistent worlds) or sometimes you call your friend dave who comes over and chops them with you (online with cloud), both buying choppee peppers and having dave help you chop them saves a little bit of time and frees you up to do other things.

 

but in the grand scheme of things your neighbour has a better oven that cooks a little faster (ps4) so even though you can theoretically make a pizza a little faster by not doing everything yourself, ultimately it isn't as good as having a faster cooking oven.

 

Besides that pesky dave won't always be available to everyone cooking a pizza and sometimes he might take a while to come over, and there's always the possibility of your neighbour asking his unemployed friend guy kai to lend a hand in the future.

And this disproves me how? look at this statement, then mine, then yours.





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Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

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g911turbo on 10 October 2013
dsgrue3 said:
g911turbo said:

And BTW, your power band of the engine remands the same actually (Dyno can show this, power is area under the curve (INTEGRAL if you want to get mathematical)), its when and where in that power band you are that can change (GEAR Ratios, etc).  

Actually, that is why some cars with a PEAK HP/Torque number that is higher than another car will actually be slower than the other car to 100MPH.  WHY?  Because the other car sustains power across the band (RPM range) better.   Sometimes also known as a "flat" vs. peaky curve. 

 

Keeping me honest. I will have to be more diligent in the future about ensuring my wording is appropriate for this topic.


Sorry wasn't trying to be a "stickler" haha.  :P



g911turbo on 10 October 2013
jlmurph2 said:

Why does noone understand that the majority of consumers don't give a fuck about specs, its about games and features. Both systems have games, both systems have features. Some better than the other. People will buy what they want to buy, talking about specs won't change their minds. Reviews of the full experience will.

Haha, funny thing is you've probably very right.  Problem is the PS4 is 100 dollars cheaper, and that matters past the intial launch frenzy.



joeorc on 10 October 2013
fallen said:

I see a lot of so called spec comparison on places like Neogaf that are incomplete, or extremely biased towards PS4 to the point of being nonsense, so I wanted make a true, unbiased reference. The PS4 will go second and be compared to the X1 baseline in terms of percentages.

X1:

Disc: 6X Blu Ray

Disc capacity: 50 GB

HDD: 500 GB 5400 RPM

RAM quantity: 8GB

CPU: 8 core (6 game usable) 1.75 ghz Jaguar (Plus SHAPE audio chip likely ~1 CPU core of audio processing, +cloud support which we will ignore for now but could offload things like AI from X1 CPU in the future)

GPU FLOPS 1.31 teraflops

Texture units 48 at 853 mhz

Triangle setup engines: 2 at853 mhz

ROPS 16 at 853 mhz

Peak bandwidth: 204+68=272 GB/s

Peak BW per GFLOP= 272,000 MB/S/1310=207.6 MB/S/GFLOP

 

PS4:

Disc: 6X Blu Ray (+0%)

Disc capacity: 50 GB (+0%)

HDD 500GB 5400 RPM (+0%)

RAM quantity: 8GB (+0%)

CPU 8 core (6 game usable) Jaguar CPU 1.6 ghz (-9% raw, -24% after removing 1 core for audio processing to match SHAPE, ignoring X1's cloud capability for now)

GPU FLOPS: 1.843 (+41%)

Texture units: 72 at 800 mhz (+41%)

ROPS: 32 at 800 mhz (+88%) (However, the real world impact will be much lower as 16 ROPS typically enough at 1080P and less)

Peak bandwidth: 176 GB/s (-35%)

Peak BW per GFLOP: 176,000 MB/S/1843=95.5 MB/S/GFLOP (-54%)

 

 

 

There you have the complete picture of baseline specs, subject to countless other variables we know nothing about...

 

From a high level, PS4 has a stronger GPU while X1 has a sigjnificant edge in peak bandwidth, and a slight to moderate advantage in CPU, which could grow if developers begin to leverage the cloud in the future. The disc read subystems and RAM quantities are identical.

Sony has not issued the core clock rate of the PS4's CPU! so your data will be off right now, but that was a very good brak down  based on incomplete data nice lil list kudo's



I AM BOLO

100% lover "nothing else matter's" after that...

ps:

Proud psOne/2/3/p owner.  I survived Aplcalyps3 and all I got was this lousy Signature.

Frequency on 10 October 2013
kirby007 said:
Frequency said:
kirby007 said:
fatslob-:O said:
fallen said:
RenCutypoison said:
fallen said:

X1:

e) 1.75 ghz Jaguar (Plus SHAPE audio chip likely ~1 CPU core of audio processing, +cloud support which we will ignore for now but could offload things like AI from X1 CPU in the future)

 

Reading shit again.

Saying cloud support on hardware side is stupid. PS4 and Wii U are connected to the internet too.

Can you point me to where Sony and (LOL) Nintendo execs mention their array of servers set up and offered to developers to help their consoles?

 

That's really the difference here. MS has their Azure cloud infrastructure ready to go, because it's a part of their business.  Someone will bring up Sony's Gakai here, but that's complelety different tech. It's more in line with what Microsoft calls "Rio" (cloud streaming service, which they demonstrated streaming Halo 4 to a windows phone)

 

I did not include Cloud in the comparison anyway, simply mentioned it as an aside. We will see. But I also think it's silly to pretend it doesn't exist. I'd say more that the jury is out how much it will help.

 

Even if it simply is used for dedicated servers for every multiplayer game, that alone saves CPU. I think AI might be another lowhanging fruit to offload from the local CPU, but again without any proof yet, I dont include it in my spec comparison. The picture could change in 2-3 years though.

 

 

MS Azure won't do shit for graphics just so you know otherwise they would be losing billions upons billions and that would be the end of the xbox divison. 

Indirectly it will, so stop being subborn

I BAKE 5 CAKES IN ONE OVEN ( with capacity 5 )

THEN SUDDENLY THE BAKER OFFERS TO BAKE TWO (2)

SO THAT OPENS 2 SLOTS IN MY OVEN WHICH I NOW CAN USE FOR PIZZAPIECHUTNEY

SO I WILL HAVE 5 CAKES AND TWO PIZZAPIECHUTNEYS


A more accurate analogy would be that you are cooking some pizzas, and sometimes you buy whole peppers (offline) and sometimes you buy 'remotely chopped (chopped by someone else)' peppers, (online consistent worlds) or sometimes you call your friend dave who comes over and chops them with you (online with cloud), both buying choppee peppers and having dave help you chop them saves a little bit of time and frees you up to do other things.

 

but in the grand scheme of things your neighbour has a better oven that cooks a little faster (ps4) so even though you can theoretically make a pizza a little faster by not doing everything yourself, ultimately it isn't as good as having a faster cooking oven.

 

Besides that pesky dave won't always be available to everyone cooking a pizza and sometimes he might take a while to come over, and there's always the possibility of your neighbour asking his unemployed friend guy kai to lend a hand in the future.

And this disproves me how? look at this statement, then mine, then yours.

I think you are being a mite touchy, I never claimed you were wrong I simply offered a more accurate analogy which is more to scale in terms of functionality.

You might do well to calm the knee jerk reactions a little.