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Forums - Nintendo - VD-Dev "pushing the 3DS to its limits"

fatslob-:O on 14 October 2013
RazorDragon said:
fatslob-:O said:
Chrizum said:
fatslob-:O said:
Viper1 said:
fatslob-:O said:
Viper1 said:

I'm sorry but if we are talking flamebait, your bait is that neon sign in the window coupled with the analog arrow sign out front with the plastic lettering all topped off with the guy in the funny costume near the road side dancing with the arrow sign pointing toward your 'store'.

These so called "flamebaits" just so happen to have facts to back them.

What you call 'facts' are often referrred to as opinion by others.  Coupled with far too many data inputs that are most certanly not facts.

Fact: The 3DS is weaker than the gamecube. 

Fact: When you present a fact, provide evidence to support your claim, otherwise you're better off saying nothing.

Fact: It has less shaders than the gamecube and a lower clock. 


You've got to be kidding me. First of all, Gamecube's GPU didn't even had any "shaders"(by saying that, you must mean pixel/vertex shader units, otherwise your comment wouldn't even make sense), it's an old 2001 fixed-function GPU. 3DS's GPU, on the other hand, does support vertex and pixel shader functionality compilant with OpenGL ES 1.0 standard, even though it does have fixed-function units.

And all that MHz myth talk is getting tiring. I thought we all had understood that MHz meant nothing back there in 2000, when the high-clocked Pentium 4 processors went against lower-clocked Athlon XP processors and the Athlon XP's actually performed better despite a much lower clock speed. More MHz doesn't always equal better performance, processor architecture does. Within a same architecture, clock speed matters, otherwise, it's useless comparing it.

Aside from all the nonsense you said, you are somewhat right about one thing: 3DS is, indeed, weaker than Gamecube. By saying weaker, I mean that 3DS's GPU outputs less polygons and the dual ARM11 processor is worse than Gamecube's Gekko. Now, compare anything else other than CPU and polygon count and the 3DS will be better, by a fair margin, when compared to the Gamecube.

Thanks for supporting my arguement with some actual knowledge compared to the others in this thread. ^_^

BTW The gamecube did have shaders even if it were fixed functions and what not. Yeah, I know about the whole IPC thing. Just so you know the gamecube has a higher pixel and texture fillrates. The only advantage that I can infer is a larger memory and a higher memory bandwidth.

You might want to tell people in this thread to educate themselves. 



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fatslob-:O on 14 October 2013
JoeTheBro said:
Mnementh said:
JoeTheBro said:
 

There's a difference between being a troll and sticking to your guns.

Is Kaizar a troll when he starts bringing out his 3DS specs and saying its games run at 120fps? No, he's just dedicated to his beliefs.

The Curch of Nintendo, LOL.

But yes, you have a point here. Kaizar is in that different to fatslob, as he sticks to what he believes. fatslob seem only to make stuff up to rile people up and seem always to change what he says and means if you want to point him out how he is wrong. So he says first (stereoscopic) 3D is mandatory on 3DS, then changes his opinion to programs mostly use it (what I can agree with) and then changes again to 'every 3DS is going to use it' (what is clearly wrong, as I own 3DS games that don't use the stereoscopic 3D).

In light of recent events, I'd like to retract my original statement.

So what's your statement now ?



JoeTheBro on 14 October 2013
fatslob-:O said:
JoeTheBro said:
Mnementh said:
JoeTheBro said:
 

There's a difference between being a troll and sticking to your guns.

Is Kaizar a troll when he starts bringing out his 3DS specs and saying its games run at 120fps? No, he's just dedicated to his beliefs.

The Curch of Nintendo, LOL.

But yes, you have a point here. Kaizar is in that different to fatslob, as he sticks to what he believes. fatslob seem only to make stuff up to rile people up and seem always to change what he says and means if you want to point him out how he is wrong. So he says first (stereoscopic) 3D is mandatory on 3DS, then changes his opinion to programs mostly use it (what I can agree with) and then changes again to 'every 3DS is going to use it' (what is clearly wrong, as I own 3DS games that don't use the stereoscopic 3D).

In light of recent events, I'd like to retract my original statement.

So what's your statement now ?


That you're neither a troll nor sticking to your guns ;)



Links

fatslob-:O on 14 October 2013
JoeTheBro said:
fatslob-:O said:
JoeTheBro said:
Mnementh said:
JoeTheBro said:
 

There's a difference between being a troll and sticking to your guns.

Is Kaizar a troll when he starts bringing out his 3DS specs and saying its games run at 120fps? No, he's just dedicated to his beliefs.

The Curch of Nintendo, LOL.

But yes, you have a point here. Kaizar is in that different to fatslob, as he sticks to what he believes. fatslob seem only to make stuff up to rile people up and seem always to change what he says and means if you want to point him out how he is wrong. So he says first (stereoscopic) 3D is mandatory on 3DS, then changes his opinion to programs mostly use it (what I can agree with) and then changes again to 'every 3DS is going to use it' (what is clearly wrong, as I own 3DS games that don't use the stereoscopic 3D).

In light of recent events, I'd like to retract my original statement.

So what's your statement now ?


That you're neither a troll nor sticking to your guns ;)

Haha. ;P 

It is what it is and i am who I am but the most important of all is that nobody is safe from me when others make a slip in their moves. 



RazorDragon on 14 October 2013
fatslob-:O said:
RazorDragon said:

You've got to be kidding me. First of all, Gamecube's GPU didn't even had any "shaders"(by saying that, you must mean pixel/vertex shader units, otherwise your comment wouldn't even make sense), it's an old 2001 fixed-function GPU. 3DS's GPU, on the other hand, does support vertex and pixel shader functionality compilant with OpenGL ES 1.0 standard, even though it does have fixed-function units.

And all that MHz myth talk is getting tiring. I thought we all had understood that MHz meant nothing back there in 2000, when the high-clocked Pentium 4 processors went against lower-clocked Athlon XP processors and the Athlon XP's actually performed better despite a much lower clock speed. More MHz doesn't always equal better performance, processor architecture does. Within a same architecture, clock speed matters, otherwise, it's useless comparing it.

Aside from all the nonsense you said, you are somewhat right about one thing: 3DS is, indeed, weaker than Gamecube. By saying weaker, I mean that 3DS's GPU outputs less polygons and the dual ARM11 processor is worse than Gamecube's Gekko. Now, compare anything else other than CPU and polygon count and the 3DS will be better, by a fair margin, when compared to the Gamecube.

Thanks for supporting my arguement with some actual knowledge compared to the others in this thread. ^_^

BTW The gamecube did have shaders even if it were fixed functions and what not. Yeah, I know about the whole IPC thing. Just so you know the gamecube has a higher pixel and texture fillrates. The only advantage that I can infer is a larger memory and a higher memory bandwidth.

You might want to tell people in this thread to educate themselves. 


I wouldn't say shaders, TEV units were very limited and simply cannot be compared to actual pixel/vertex shader functionality, you can see that the OG Xbox even beat the Wii in certain areas(shadowing, normal mapping) thanks to it's first gen Shader Model vs Wii's TEV units. About pixel and texture fillrates, 3DS has a much higher pixel fillrate(1600Mpixels/s) when compared to Gamecube (648Mpixels/s). Couldn't find any source about Texture fillrates from both the Gamecube and the 3DS, so I won't comment on that.



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fatslob-:O on 14 October 2013
RazorDragon said:
fatslob-:O said:
RazorDragon said:

You've got to be kidding me. First of all, Gamecube's GPU didn't even had any "shaders"(by saying that, you must mean pixel/vertex shader units, otherwise your comment wouldn't even make sense), it's an old 2001 fixed-function GPU. 3DS's GPU, on the other hand, does support vertex and pixel shader functionality compilant with OpenGL ES 1.0 standard, even though it does have fixed-function units.

And all that MHz myth talk is getting tiring. I thought we all had understood that MHz meant nothing back there in 2000, when the high-clocked Pentium 4 processors went against lower-clocked Athlon XP processors and the Athlon XP's actually performed better despite a much lower clock speed. More MHz doesn't always equal better performance, processor architecture does. Within a same architecture, clock speed matters, otherwise, it's useless comparing it.

Aside from all the nonsense you said, you are somewhat right about one thing: 3DS is, indeed, weaker than Gamecube. By saying weaker, I mean that 3DS's GPU outputs less polygons and the dual ARM11 processor is worse than Gamecube's Gekko. Now, compare anything else other than CPU and polygon count and the 3DS will be better, by a fair margin, when compared to the Gamecube.

Thanks for supporting my arguement with some actual knowledge compared to the others in this thread. ^_^

BTW The gamecube did have shaders even if it were fixed functions and what not. Yeah, I know about the whole IPC thing. Just so you know the gamecube has a higher pixel and texture fillrates. The only advantage that I can infer is a larger memory and a higher memory bandwidth.

You might want to tell people in this thread to educate themselves. 


I wouldn't say shaders, TEV units were very limited and simply cannot be compared to actual pixel/vertex shader functionality, you can see that the Xbox even beat the Wii in certain areas(shadowing, normal mapping) thanks to it's first gen Shader Model vs Wii's TEV units. About pixel and texture fillrates, 3DS has a much higher pixel fillrate(1600Mpixels/s) when compared to Gamecube (648Mpixels/s). Couldn't find any source about Texture fillrates from both the Gamecube and the 3DS, so I won't comment on that.

You realize that the 3DSs GPU is running at 133mhz and not 400mhz, right ? http://www.tested.com/tech/gaming/992-nintendo-3ds-specs-revealed133mhz-gpu-dual-266mhz-arm11-cpus/

So that 1600Mpixels gets toned down to 533Mpixels.



~kao on 14 October 2013

Didnt know the DS could handle a full open world game, pretty awesome

fatslob-:O said:
JoeTheBro said:
fatslob-:O said:
JoeTheBro said:
Mnementh said:
JoeTheBro said:
 

There's a difference between being a troll and sticking to your guns.

Is Kaizar a troll when he starts bringing out his 3DS specs and saying its games run at 120fps? No, he's just dedicated to his beliefs.

The Curch of Nintendo, LOL.

But yes, you have a point here. Kaizar is in that different to fatslob, as he sticks to what he believes. fatslob seem only to make stuff up to rile people up and seem always to change what he says and means if you want to point him out how he is wrong. So he says first (stereoscopic) 3D is mandatory on 3DS, then changes his opinion to programs mostly use it (what I can agree with) and then changes again to 'every 3DS is going to use it' (what is clearly wrong, as I own 3DS games that don't use the stereoscopic 3D).

In light of recent events, I'd like to retract my original statement.

So what's your statement now ?


That you're neither a troll nor sticking to your guns ;)

Haha. ;P 

It is what it is and i am who I am but the most important of all is that nobody is safe from me when others make a slip in their moves. 





RazorDragon on 14 October 2013
fatslob-:O said:
RazorDragon said:
fatslob-:O said:
RazorDragon said:

You've got to be kidding me. First of all, Gamecube's GPU didn't even had any "shaders"(by saying that, you must mean pixel/vertex shader units, otherwise your comment wouldn't even make sense), it's an old 2001 fixed-function GPU. 3DS's GPU, on the other hand, does support vertex and pixel shader functionality compilant with OpenGL ES 1.0 standard, even though it does have fixed-function units.

And all that MHz myth talk is getting tiring. I thought we all had understood that MHz meant nothing back there in 2000, when the high-clocked Pentium 4 processors went against lower-clocked Athlon XP processors and the Athlon XP's actually performed better despite a much lower clock speed. More MHz doesn't always equal better performance, processor architecture does. Within a same architecture, clock speed matters, otherwise, it's useless comparing it.

Aside from all the nonsense you said, you are somewhat right about one thing: 3DS is, indeed, weaker than Gamecube. By saying weaker, I mean that 3DS's GPU outputs less polygons and the dual ARM11 processor is worse than Gamecube's Gekko. Now, compare anything else other than CPU and polygon count and the 3DS will be better, by a fair margin, when compared to the Gamecube.

Thanks for supporting my arguement with some actual knowledge compared to the others in this thread. ^_^

BTW The gamecube did have shaders even if it were fixed functions and what not. Yeah, I know about the whole IPC thing. Just so you know the gamecube has a higher pixel and texture fillrates. The only advantage that I can infer is a larger memory and a higher memory bandwidth.

You might want to tell people in this thread to educate themselves. 


I wouldn't say shaders, TEV units were very limited and simply cannot be compared to actual pixel/vertex shader functionality, you can see that the Xbox even beat the Wii in certain areas(shadowing, normal mapping) thanks to it's first gen Shader Model vs Wii's TEV units. About pixel and texture fillrates, 3DS has a much higher pixel fillrate(1600Mpixels/s) when compared to Gamecube (648Mpixels/s). Couldn't find any source about Texture fillrates from both the Gamecube and the 3DS, so I won't comment on that.

You realize that the 3DSs GPU is running at 133mhz and not 400mhz, right ? http://www.tested.com/tech/gaming/992-nintendo-3ds-specs-revealed133mhz-gpu-dual-266mhz-arm11-cpus/

So that 1600Mpixels gets toned down to 533Mpixels.


You're right, I forgot about that fact. Anyway, I am impressed how these 533Mpixels/s would be enough to handle games at launch like SSFIV3D which use FSAA in 2D mode(therefore, internal rendering is done in 800x480, then downscaled to match screen resolution) and also display images on the lower 320x240 screen at a steady 60FPS.



fatslob-:O on 14 October 2013
RazorDragon said:
fatslob-:O said:
RazorDragon said:
fatslob-:O said:
RazorDragon said:

You've got to be kidding me. First of all, Gamecube's GPU didn't even had any "shaders"(by saying that, you must mean pixel/vertex shader units, otherwise your comment wouldn't even make sense), it's an old 2001 fixed-function GPU. 3DS's GPU, on the other hand, does support vertex and pixel shader functionality compilant with OpenGL ES 1.0 standard, even though it does have fixed-function units.

And all that MHz myth talk is getting tiring. I thought we all had understood that MHz meant nothing back there in 2000, when the high-clocked Pentium 4 processors went against lower-clocked Athlon XP processors and the Athlon XP's actually performed better despite a much lower clock speed. More MHz doesn't always equal better performance, processor architecture does. Within a same architecture, clock speed matters, otherwise, it's useless comparing it.

Aside from all the nonsense you said, you are somewhat right about one thing: 3DS is, indeed, weaker than Gamecube. By saying weaker, I mean that 3DS's GPU outputs less polygons and the dual ARM11 processor is worse than Gamecube's Gekko. Now, compare anything else other than CPU and polygon count and the 3DS will be better, by a fair margin, when compared to the Gamecube.

Thanks for supporting my arguement with some actual knowledge compared to the others in this thread. ^_^

BTW The gamecube did have shaders even if it were fixed functions and what not. Yeah, I know about the whole IPC thing. Just so you know the gamecube has a higher pixel and texture fillrates. The only advantage that I can infer is a larger memory and a higher memory bandwidth.

You might want to tell people in this thread to educate themselves. 


I wouldn't say shaders, TEV units were very limited and simply cannot be compared to actual pixel/vertex shader functionality, you can see that the Xbox even beat the Wii in certain areas(shadowing, normal mapping) thanks to it's first gen Shader Model vs Wii's TEV units. About pixel and texture fillrates, 3DS has a much higher pixel fillrate(1600Mpixels/s) when compared to Gamecube (648Mpixels/s). Couldn't find any source about Texture fillrates from both the Gamecube and the 3DS, so I won't comment on that.

You realize that the 3DSs GPU is running at 133mhz and not 400mhz, right ? http://www.tested.com/tech/gaming/992-nintendo-3ds-specs-revealed133mhz-gpu-dual-266mhz-arm11-cpus/

So that 1600Mpixels gets toned down to 533Mpixels.


You're right, I forgot about that fact. Anyway, I am impressed how these 533Mpixels/s would be enough to handle games at launch like SSFIV3D which use FSAA in 2D mode(therefore, internal rendering is done in 800x480, then downscaled to match screen resolution) and also display images on the lower 320x240 screen at a steady 60FPS.

You do realize that current gen consoles are pretty pathetic too in terms of fillrate, right ? 

4.4Gpixels for the PS3 and 4 for the xbox 360. 

Considering that their parts are over a hundred watts i would expect more from them. 



Viper1 on 15 October 2013
fatslob-:O said:

@Bold Just so you know xbox shits on the gamecube in terms of outputting polygons, pixels, and textrue according to the specs. 

BTW chronicles of riddick on the xbox along with doom 3 would like a word with that. 

According to the specs?  Congrats, you can read a spec sheet.

Now why don't you enlighten us what that all means when you take into account shading, texturing, A.I., physics, music, etc...rather than raw wireframe polygons.



The rEVOLution is not being televised