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Forums - Nintendo - If consoles sales are all about the software, then what's the point Wii U's second screen?

richardhutnik on 25 September 2013
cyberninja45 said:
richardhutnik said:
cyberninja45 said:
richardhutnik said:
cyberninja45 said:
richardhutnik said:
Arius Dion said:
I'd've rather Nintendo just improve the weaknesses the Wii had rather than throw the baby out with the bathwater. Its not that the people grew tired of Motion Controls, Nintendo got tired of making games (people wanted) with motion controls.

They could have sold the Gamepad like they sold Wii Fit, improve WM+ accuracy/efficiency, wireless nunchuck, and include a Procontroller as to not split userbase. Have an actual account system (not tied to hardware) and have a virtual console like iTunes instead of a trickling out of games.

And lastly, have the right software to move the hardware. Mario U could have been that game, but you can see how lazily that game was made. In any case, Nintendo isnt doing so well financially (by their standards) and their console business is really dragging atm. So obviously changes are needed, no one likes loosing $$

Well, the whole motion control thing got taken over by Microsoft with the ONE, and Kinect 2.0.  But, as was seen with Ryse, it was found that motion control has limited scope where it can be used.  So, Nintendo decided to go in a different direction with the second screen.


You are confusing kinect motion controls with the wiimote both of which can be used very differently, but the wiimote still can do the same as traditional controls and more unlike kinect. The limited use of kinect should be brought up with the wiimote+ they are not the same gameplay wise.

Both Kinect and the Wiimote address the issue of motion control.  I am not confusing the two, but just showing that motion control showed itself to be of limited scope in a control mechanism. Nintendo has been moving away from it for a reason, while Microsoft has been trying to maximize usage of it with Kinect, but finding the best use is anything BUT games.

Again you are confusing the two. Yes both can use motion control, but the way the controls are designed to be used are tow different beast. The wiimote was desgined so it can be still be used in traditional games (the only exception would be the fighting game genre I think it is rather clunky for that), most genre it either improves handling FPS  RTS TPS etc or it doesn't hinder it. The way the kinect is designed it will have trouble just trying to implement control for any free roaming character ie it can most only be used for limited sports game or on rails games.

EDIT- That's why you have people saying the wiimote is greater than the gamepad.  Also when I say wiimote I mean wiimote- nunchuck combo although I think that should be understood.

The Wiimote, without the motion control, is the NES controller reintroduced.  Motion control is a key part of it.  Now, if one wants to have more functionality, then you take something like the Playstation controller and go SixAxis.  

I won't deny here that the Wiimote didn't have a larger impact than the U Pad.  But that doesn't mean one can just try to extend the Wiimote somehow and replicate success of generating growth.  The other way to extend motion control is what Microsoft did.

I guess here, what can be said is no one has managed to successfully come up with a way for the whole body to be a controller AND navigate a 3D environment for immersion.  The Wii U still can still do the Wii stuff, but they moved away from it, because Microsoft and Sont went into that space.  Sony and Nintendo are trying to implement mouse type controls with their controllers though.

The IR sensor also plays a big part in the wiimote a very big part its almost as important as the motion control, one should not overlook that.

if I recall correctly, the Wii's IR sensor isn't really a sensor, but it broadcasts information to the Wii remote which the Wii remote broadcasts to the Wii system. 



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oniyide on 25 September 2013
happydolphin said:
richardhutnik said:
happydolphin said:

It's more added to what's already there. That's like saying that the L & R buttons are a step back from the A and B buttons because the A and B buttons are better buttons.

Also, the gamepad was heavily used on the DS, so I don't see why it's so resented when it comes to the U.

The gamepad requires full breaking of focus via head movement, to use, as opposed to the DS screen, which is a quick look up and down, and keep the head focused.  It is not the same thing, but it is connected a bit.  One could, for example, combine the two screens together on the DS set up and play as one.  The Wii U is not the same.

One minor difference that anyone can agree to. But the similarities are also very potent. The touch menu of OoT 3D will be available for Zelda U like it is currently for WWHD. The ability to draw notes on maps like in Spirit Tracks will be there. The touch controls of Trauma Center will be possible and more adequate than the Wiimote's interface. Those kinds of things are all still available in common between the two devices (DS and Wii U).

i see what you're saying, but i still think you are wrong the games that TRULY benefitted from the DS touchscreen are not the type of games that are going to be popular on a home console, so sure you can have your little map, but that doesnt really make the game that much better, not like we havent been playing without it for years.



oniyide on 25 September 2013

anyone saying that Ninty abandoned motion controls is wrong, factually so. Wii U still supports the wiimote and there are games that still support it, people dont know what the word abandon means. Hell they are all supporting it in some way shape or form.



richardhutnik on 26 September 2013
oniyide said:
happydolphin said:
richardhutnik said:
happydolphin said:

It's more added to what's already there. That's like saying that the L & R buttons are a step back from the A and B buttons because the A and B buttons are better buttons.

Also, the gamepad was heavily used on the DS, so I don't see why it's so resented when it comes to the U.

The gamepad requires full breaking of focus via head movement, to use, as opposed to the DS screen, which is a quick look up and down, and keep the head focused.  It is not the same thing, but it is connected a bit.  One could, for example, combine the two screens together on the DS set up and play as one.  The Wii U is not the same.

One minor difference that anyone can agree to. But the similarities are also very potent. The touch menu of OoT 3D will be available for Zelda U like it is currently for WWHD. The ability to draw notes on maps like in Spirit Tracks will be there. The touch controls of Trauma Center will be possible and more adequate than the Wiimote's interface. Those kinds of things are all still available in common between the two devices (DS and Wii U).

i see what you're saying, but i still think you are wrong the games that TRULY benefitted from the DS touchscreen are not the type of games that are going to be popular on a home console, so sure you can have your little map, but that doesnt really make the game that much better, not like we havent been playing without it for years.

I think there is a role somewhere here, as SmartGlass and Vita integration on the respective consoles show.  Also, consoles STILL have not been able to implement RTS yet (and don't give me Halo Wars as a solution, as it isn't).  BUT, whether or not that is enough to move sales, is the big question and a point of contention sides are lining up on in threads like this.



happydolphin on 26 September 2013
richardhutnik said:

I think there is a role somewhere here, as SmartGlass and Vita integration on the respective consoles show.  Also, consoles STILL have not been able to implement RTS yet (and don't give me Halo Wars as a solution, as it isn't).  BUT, whether or not that is enough to move sales, is the big question and a point of contention sides are lining up on in threads like this.

That's  a very good point. I think ultimately if the uses of the technology captivate people the sales should follow. With the Wiimote, the functionality was often slapped onto a product, at other times it was executed perfectly.

I think this time around the devs are given the choice, and so can better make use of an interface for a more applicable purpose. In the end, the sales will reflect the ability of a developer to make good use of the tool, and low sales their inability. The potential is always there for high sales, since I personally believe that any interface if properly used could captivate a huge audience. Look at tamagochi.



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oniyide on 26 September 2013
richardhutnik said:
oniyide said:
happydolphin said:
richardhutnik said:
happydolphin said:

It's more added to what's already there. That's like saying that the L & R buttons are a step back from the A and B buttons because the A and B buttons are better buttons.

Also, the gamepad was heavily used on the DS, so I don't see why it's so resented when it comes to the U.

The gamepad requires full breaking of focus via head movement, to use, as opposed to the DS screen, which is a quick look up and down, and keep the head focused.  It is not the same thing, but it is connected a bit.  One could, for example, combine the two screens together on the DS set up and play as one.  The Wii U is not the same.

One minor difference that anyone can agree to. But the similarities are also very potent. The touch menu of OoT 3D will be available for Zelda U like it is currently for WWHD. The ability to draw notes on maps like in Spirit Tracks will be there. The touch controls of Trauma Center will be possible and more adequate than the Wiimote's interface. Those kinds of things are all still available in common between the two devices (DS and Wii U).

i see what you're saying, but i still think you are wrong the games that TRULY benefitted from the DS touchscreen are not the type of games that are going to be popular on a home console, so sure you can have your little map, but that doesnt really make the game that much better, not like we havent been playing without it for years.

I think there is a role somewhere here, as SmartGlass and Vita integration on the respective consoles show.  Also, consoles STILL have not been able to implement RTS yet (and don't give me Halo Wars as a solution, as it isn't).  BUT, whether or not that is enough to move sales, is the big question and a point of contention sides are lining up on in threads like this.

Im going to go out on a limb and say NO, the gamepad hasnt done it and IMHO they are NOT going to do it, nothing that Ninty has coming so far i see is going to really show the thing off. Mario Kart? probably going to use the 2nd screen just like they did for the recent portable games and weve already had two of those. Smash Bros.? fighting game? doubt it. 

As for RTS i think you are giving that genre FAR too much credit, Pikmin 3 is one such game and its been getting rave reviews and hasnt done anything for Wii U what game do you think will do what it couldnt? is it even that popular on PC? im asking cause i dont know. Smartglass and Vita, not many people are buying Vitas and as much as i like the system i dont see that changing. Smartglass, i dont think that much people care, and if people dont care devs are not going to care and not going to take advantage. 



richardhutnik on 26 September 2013
oniyide said:
richardhutnik said:
oniyide said:
happydolphin said:
richardhutnik said:
happydolphin said:

It's more added to what's already there. That's like saying that the L & R buttons are a step back from the A and B buttons because the A and B buttons are better buttons.

Also, the gamepad was heavily used on the DS, so I don't see why it's so resented when it comes to the U.

The gamepad requires full breaking of focus via head movement, to use, as opposed to the DS screen, which is a quick look up and down, and keep the head focused.  It is not the same thing, but it is connected a bit.  One could, for example, combine the two screens together on the DS set up and play as one.  The Wii U is not the same.

One minor difference that anyone can agree to. But the similarities are also very potent. The touch menu of OoT 3D will be available for Zelda U like it is currently for WWHD. The ability to draw notes on maps like in Spirit Tracks will be there. The touch controls of Trauma Center will be possible and more adequate than the Wiimote's interface. Those kinds of things are all still available in common between the two devices (DS and Wii U).

i see what you're saying, but i still think you are wrong the games that TRULY benefitted from the DS touchscreen are not the type of games that are going to be popular on a home console, so sure you can have your little map, but that doesnt really make the game that much better, not like we havent been playing without it for years.

I think there is a role somewhere here, as SmartGlass and Vita integration on the respective consoles show.  Also, consoles STILL have not been able to implement RTS yet (and don't give me Halo Wars as a solution, as it isn't).  BUT, whether or not that is enough to move sales, is the big question and a point of contention sides are lining up on in threads like this.

Im going to go out on a limb and say NO, the gamepad hasnt done it and IMHO they are NOT going to do it, nothing that Ninty has coming so far i see is going to really show the thing off. Mario Kart? probably going to use the 2nd screen just like they did for the recent portable games and weve already had two of those. Smash Bros.? fighting game? doubt it. 

As for RTS i think you are giving that genre FAR too much credit, Pikmin 3 is one such game and its been getting rave reviews and hasnt done anything for Wii U what game do you think will do what it couldnt? is it even that popular on PC? im asking cause i dont know. Smartglass and Vita, not many people are buying Vitas and as much as i like the system i dont see that changing. Smartglass, i dont think that much people care, and if people dont care devs are not going to care and not going to take advantage. 

I do have to seriously wonder then.  Pikmin is as close as Nintendo has to an RTS and they didn't even attempt to implement RTS type controls with it?  Maybe Advanced War or Battallion War could be a possibility. 



oniyide on 26 September 2013
richardhutnik said:
oniyide said:
richardhutnik said:
oniyide said:
happydolphin said:
richardhutnik said:
happydolphin said:

It's more added to what's already there. That's like saying that the L & R buttons are a step back from the A and B buttons because the A and B buttons are better buttons.

Also, the gamepad was heavily used on the DS, so I don't see why it's so resented when it comes to the U.

The gamepad requires full breaking of focus via head movement, to use, as opposed to the DS screen, which is a quick look up and down, and keep the head focused.  It is not the same thing, but it is connected a bit.  One could, for example, combine the two screens together on the DS set up and play as one.  The Wii U is not the same.

One minor difference that anyone can agree to. But the similarities are also very potent. The touch menu of OoT 3D will be available for Zelda U like it is currently for WWHD. The ability to draw notes on maps like in Spirit Tracks will be there. The touch controls of Trauma Center will be possible and more adequate than the Wiimote's interface. Those kinds of things are all still available in common between the two devices (DS and Wii U).

i see what you're saying, but i still think you are wrong the games that TRULY benefitted from the DS touchscreen are not the type of games that are going to be popular on a home console, so sure you can have your little map, but that doesnt really make the game that much better, not like we havent been playing without it for years.

I think there is a role somewhere here, as SmartGlass and Vita integration on the respective consoles show.  Also, consoles STILL have not been able to implement RTS yet (and don't give me Halo Wars as a solution, as it isn't).  BUT, whether or not that is enough to move sales, is the big question and a point of contention sides are lining up on in threads like this.

Im going to go out on a limb and say NO, the gamepad hasnt done it and IMHO they are NOT going to do it, nothing that Ninty has coming so far i see is going to really show the thing off. Mario Kart? probably going to use the 2nd screen just like they did for the recent portable games and weve already had two of those. Smash Bros.? fighting game? doubt it. 

As for RTS i think you are giving that genre FAR too much credit, Pikmin 3 is one such game and its been getting rave reviews and hasnt done anything for Wii U what game do you think will do what it couldnt? is it even that popular on PC? im asking cause i dont know. Smartglass and Vita, not many people are buying Vitas and as much as i like the system i dont see that changing. Smartglass, i dont think that much people care, and if people dont care devs are not going to care and not going to take advantage. 

I do have to seriously wonder then.  Pikmin is as close as Nintendo has to an RTS and they didn't even attempt to implement RTS type controls with it?  Maybe Advanced War or Battallion War could be a possibility. 


advanced wars is a portable series dont see them moving that to consoles. Thats what Battallion wars is for, but i dont think they are going to make one of those for a while if ever. I think right now Ninty is just interested in making games that know will sell millions.



ListerOfSmeg on 26 September 2013
oniyide said:
badgenome said:

I think it's there just because Nintendo is set on the idea that they can't just make a console anymore. It has to be different from their previous console, and it has to be different from the competition. While this worked for the Wii, the difference is that the Wii had a good gimmick and a killer app that explained that gimmick perfectly to customers. The Wii U seems to be something that Nintendo themselves isn't even really enthusiastic about, the screen having been a differentiator that they don't necessarily believe in but felt obligated to make.

There may be a killer app yet for the Wii U, but Nintendoland was definitely not it, and the fact that the basic idea of a second screen isn't really appreciably different from the DS with which Nintendo is already very familiar by now makes me think there isn't one coming. If there is, it will likely be something built around asymmetrical multiplayer, which is quite different from what's been done on the DS.

would that not require the system to have more than one pad working at once? Cause I dont see that happening anytime soon either and thats a big problem IMO



Its already been done. Nintendoland, Zombi U both offer it.

No you dont need another gamepad for that either. Just 2 screens. gamepad and TV.



oniyide on 26 September 2013
ListerOfSmeg said:
oniyide said:
badgenome said:

I think it's there just because Nintendo is set on the idea that they can't just make a console anymore. It has to be different from their previous console, and it has to be different from the competition. While this worked for the Wii, the difference is that the Wii had a good gimmick and a killer app that explained that gimmick perfectly to customers. The Wii U seems to be something that Nintendo themselves isn't even really enthusiastic about, the screen having been a differentiator that they don't necessarily believe in but felt obligated to make.

There may be a killer app yet for the Wii U, but Nintendoland was definitely not it, and the fact that the basic idea of a second screen isn't really appreciably different from the DS with which Nintendo is already very familiar by now makes me think there isn't one coming. If there is, it will likely be something built around asymmetrical multiplayer, which is quite different from what's been done on the DS.

would that not require the system to have more than one pad working at once? Cause I dont see that happening anytime soon either and thats a big problem IMO



Its already been done. Nintendoland, Zombi U both offer it.

No you dont need another gamepad for that either. Just 2 screens. gamepad and TV.

thats true but those werent exactly killer apps as in they didnt do nothing ot move systems