tastyshovelware said:
Somehow over the course of this topic I feel I've been villianized for putting out the Fact that compared to the US and other world nations, the attachment rate for the wii isn't all that exceptional in Japan. Now, since everyone ignores the fact that I've brought up the psp and ps3 attachment rates again and again, I'll ignore those two systems and focus on the wii and my feelings towards it and nintendo. It's not that we are villianizing you for comparing the attach rate, what's wrong is that it's not a completely fair comparison. And again, I asked, which is worse, a 10% attach rate on a userbase of 5 million, or a 20% attach rate on a userbase of 1.8 million? You seem focused on the attach rate, though even though the attach rate of the second example is much better than the first one, the first one has more actual units sold. As Me pointed out, unless the consoles have similar userbases, attach rates don't mean a whole lot. As a wii owner, I want the wii to succeed. I want great 1st and 3rd party games to rain from the heavens and give me a multitude of opinions to choose from. However, at the same-time, I'm not the kind of gamer that looks to be content with what's there. I'm also not the gamer (or at least I try not to be) that lives by a double standard. Good.
Let me focus on the virtual console for just a second. I think it's a great service and have already purchased a dozen 1st and 3rd party games. However, I refuse to let it slide that nintendo, after releasing 3 games weekly in 2007, has only released 1-2 in 2008. So, while I criticize nintendo on this matter, I do it not to bash them for no reason, but let them know that I won't be content with a reduction in game supply. I get an email from Nintendo saying what new releases there are on VC, and I'm sure they've released more than 1-2 in 2008, unless you mean 1-2 a week... which compared to 3 a week isn't that great, but I still think the emails I get usually show 3 new games in the past week.
The same thing works with games. People tell me all about "the nintendo quality," well if that's the case, then I don't want to see "the nintendo quality" most of the time, I want to see it all the time. Mario Galaxy, Wario Ware, and many others are great games that deserve their sales. Nintendo is still a video game company that is run by human beings, and as such sometimes slip up and make games that one could call "good" instead of "great."
Then there games like twilight princess and paper mario. Also great games but at the end of the day, they are games that were developed for the GC with tacked on wii controls. That means that neither game pushes the system from a hardware or conceptual standpoint. Does it make those games bad? No, not really. But I think nintendo fans invoke a double standard when they grip about 3rd party last gen ports but turn a blind eye to nintendo doing the same thing. Once again, I say this not to criticize nintendo for no reason, I do it to say that I want that forward thinking nintendo experience all the time. As TWRoO already stated, Legend of Zelda: TP is a good port. It's a good port not because it comes from Nintendo, but because it's a good game, and it is a good game on both the GC and the Wii. Does it not push the system as much as it could? Yeah. Do we think Resistance: Fall of Man on the PS3 is a bad game because it doesn't "push" the PS3 hardware? No, why should we have a "double standard" on a game based on how it pushes a consoles hardware. I can't think of any bad ports right off the top of my head, but I know they are numerous, and trust me, they are bad for a reason. Then there's mario party and donkey kong which are also ports, but in my opinion of bad games. And of course Pokemon revolution which is just plain bad. Now some people will say "those games are just bad in your eyes, not every one will see it that way," which is true. However, that can be said about all games. How about rayman raving rabbids? A game that, in my opinion, had more polish and inspiration then the mario party series has seen in years. As a reward, it sold well in the US. However, going back to the sales part of this topic, it made no money in japan. As I have never played RRR, I can't say how the game is presented and such, but it might not have gotten the advertising it needed it Japan to really take off. And maybe the Japanese just don't like that presentation of a game? And maybe it does deserve to do better. Some games just don't sell in some areas. Take for example: NMH basically "bombed" in Japan, but it's not their type of game. COD4 has sold 6k and 8k on the 360 and PS3 respectively. That game made no money in Japan.
I want to know how many 3rd party games need to fail until people see that japanese gamers turn a blind eye to almost everything non nintendo on the wii. People make excuses but the numbers are there. You can't just keep saying, well zack and wiki was a niche game.... No more heroes was too out there.... Resident evil has always been more popular in the US.... Rayman Raving Rabbids is too eastern in its humor (or whatever).... Elebits is too cutsey.... Has a truly great original title hit japan yet? No, but I think people don't acknowledge the difference between a great game and a good game. People are too quick to say if it's not great it deserves to fail, which I don't think is fair. Do bad games deserve to not sale? sure. But just cause a game isn't great doesn't make it bad. Games like elebits, sonic and the secret rings, and knights were all solid first gen efforts and they bombed in japan. I think that the culture over there is such that it's nintendo fist and foremost. The top 13 games, save one, were published by nintendo. Also, 14 of the top 16. Once again, some games deserve those numbers, like mario, wario ware, and even zelda. But really, in terms of content and over all game design, do you think games like mario party, mario and sonic, and pokemon battle rev deserve to crush the competition? In those games, do you see that nintendo quality? First, you answered yourself. "Has a truly great original title hit Japan yet? No." Yes, there are some good games. On the Wii there are: DQS (500k), RE:UC (247k), DBZ:SNEO (149k), Pro Baseball 14 (137k), RE4 (133k), and Mobile Suit Gundam (110k). 6 of the top 20 games are non-Nintendo. For PS3 there are: DW6 (390k) and DWG (293k), and many others. Sony only has 6 of the top 20, but the 20th game has only sol 58k, so the 6 3rd party games for the Wii probably have the same amount of sales as the 14 3rd party games. Also, about the "culture over there is such that it's Nintendo first and foremost," the GameCube says hi. And finally, yes, not a lot of games have sold well, but there weren't a lot of quality games coming out that suited the Wii when it launched. Many Japanese devs were working on the PS3 thinking it would win Japan hands down, but since it hasn't, many of their games that would otherwise be big(ger), are underperforming, and so when you look at the PS3 with it's good games but small userbase, it looks bad, and then when you look at the Wii and it's mostly bad games, it looks bad, and you say: The market is bad! Give it another year and it'll be much different, I can almost assure you. I'm sure I'll continued to get flamed for this post. At the end of it all, I feel there's a difference between defending a system and turning a blind eye to it's flaws. If I speak ill of nintendo or a nintendo product, it's because I never want them to become content. I want them to give me, as the consumer, the best they can. On that same note, I want more from 3rd parties as well. I want more original IPs that really use the wii for what it is, a very unique system that has yet to be truly tested. You're really not getting flamed. We are merely trying to show you that what you are saying isn't really all that correct. If you wish to continue to think you are correct, that's fine. That's personal choice and opinion, an you have every right to that. If you can't allow people to come in and say why you are wrong, then you probably shouldn't post anything, because people are going to come in and say you are wrong. That's discussion. And that's a right we all have as the readers of your thread.
Sorry for taking so long. I hope that if anyone has any feedback or disagreements, that they do so knowing that I wrote this post without the intent of being aggressive, so I'd hope for the same from anyone with something to say/add. And I wrote my replies with the intent of NOT being aggressive. So we are all happy. |
