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Forums - Microsoft - Is “GPU Acceleration” Xbox One Secret Sauce?

Stinky on 15 September 2013
g911turbo said:

You actually have a good point on the kinect centric games... where are they?  Why do I need kinect other than to say xbox on, skype, fantasy football, etc.  At the end of the day, it appears microsoft is trying to make the consumer eat the cost of it.  Might be a smart decision at the end of the day.

Sell out a launch bundle at 500, calling it a "launch edition" then sell a 400 sku later on once the initial rush has died down.  Why let ebayers make all the money? Could be bad PR though if they drop the price too quickly after launch.


Nobody's forcing consumers to do anything. There's a compelling competitor product, and the fact is that kinect is a successful product.

If MS can sell out their initial run at $500, they've picked the right price. If people don't want to pay $500 for it, then it's the wrong price.



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thismeintiel on 15 September 2013

I'm just going to quote myself from the other thread, since it works for this thread, as well.

"The PS4 is more powerful. Just get over it. If you really don't like the fact you are supporting/buying the weaker of the two, than buy a PS4. If you're fine with the weaker system, because you don't mind it and/or like the exclusives, then just purchase it and stop trying to downplay the performance gap. Because the gap is there, and it WILL BE noticeable. Maybe not so much on multi-plats, but definitely on exclusives."

So, Xbox guys, it's time to start hyping up your exclusives more, not starting and contributing to threads that use unreliable sources, who obviously know little about tech, to try and downplay the performance gap.



 

Zappykins on 16 September 2013
drkohler said:
Zappykins said:

The have revealed a number of important  components to it.  The CPU is significantly larger, as is the number of co processors and the development of DirectX 11.2 over it's competitors, etc., etc.  Most of it is lost as it whooshes over people's heads.

And this is how silly rumours start, essentially.....

Care to tell us where you got the "The CPU is significantly larger" nonsense from?

"as is the number of co processors": When did dma controlers suddenly turn into "processors"? Of course MS needed a lot of secondary stuff on their SoC, it is not like the esram works on its own, and noise cancellation mics and speech recognition require "expensive" hardware, or "co-processors" in MS's words.

"development of DirectX 11.2 over it's competitors" - Yikes, MS owns directX, it is THEIR driver for WndowsX, there is NO competitor developing directX. Fortunately the competition doesn't really care about directX at all, since they have their own drivers to take care of (which, as an added bonus, can work much closer to hardware if they chose so).

So None of it "is lost as it whooshes over people's heads", because the competitiors just don't bother about what MS is doing, they try to solve their own problems instead. While we get daily (almost hourly) updates from some MS pr guy on just how great their console is, the competitor just quietly trundles along, This should give you a good idea about who is in a better position right now.


Care to tell us where you got the "The CPU is significantly larger" nonsense from?  The only non-since is denying it.  Fact, go back and watch both reveals.  In both they tell you the size of the chip. The Microsoft one is much larger than the one from Sony.  FACT: Sony tells you this themselves.  Sorry if this upsets you, but it comes directly from both companies.

OpenGL is one of many competitors to DirectX, and there are others.  Sony is even trying to imply they have 'DirectX 11.x" type stuff on their GPU.  Clearly, they want to say it is similar while implying it's the same.  It is not.  Even Nintendo tried to imply the same stuff during the WiiU reveal.  Unless they purchase a license from Microsoft, which isn't without some possibility.  There is an old saying, if you can't be 'em, join 'em.

"is lost as it whooshes over people's heads "  Apparently it is.  Read some more.  People have been jumping into threads where they don't really know anything, and just want to down play their perceived  'enemy' system.  People are under the impression you can say, "No, it is not!" and that equals a debate.  It's tedious and embarrassing for the posters.  Perhaps they should stay on threads that do not upset them?

"This should give you a good idea about who is in a better position right now." Good, there we go, something we can agree on.  Surely you have seen that one gaming company has been showing games running at 1080P at 60FPS and the other two have not.  Let's see, what's the company that makes the Xbox One game Forza 5?



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!
ethomaz on 16 September 2013

Zappykins said:

Care to tell us where you got the "The CPU is significantly larger" nonsense from?  The only non-since is denying it.  Fact, go back and watch both reveals.  In both they tell you the size of the chip. The Microsoft one is much larger than the one from Sony.  FACT: Sony tells you this themselves.  Sorry if this upsets you, but it comes directly from both companies.

OpenGL is one of many competitors to DirectX, and there are others.  Sony is even trying to imply they have 'DirectX 11.x" type stuff on their GPU.  Clearly, they want to say it is similar while implying it's the same.  It is not.  Even Nintendo tried to imply the same stuff during the WiiU reveal.  Unless they purchase a license from Microsoft, which isn't without some possibility.  There is an old saying, if you can't be 'em, join 'em.

"is lost as it whooshes over people's heads "  Apparently it is.  Read some more.  People have been jumping into threads where they don't really know anything, and just want to down play their perceived  'enemy' system.  People are under the impression you can say, "No, it is not!" and that equals a debate.  It's tedious and embarrassing for the posters.  Perhaps they should stay on threads that do not upset them?

"This should give you a good idea about who is in a better position right now." Good, there we go, something we can agree on.  Surely you have seen that one gaming company has been showing games running at 1080P at 60FPS and the other two have not.  Let's see, what's the company that makes the Xbox One game Forza 5?

1) CPU has nothing to do with APU size... CPU in both have the same size... they are identical... the APU is "larger" in Xbone because 32MB eSRAM (almost 40% of the diesize) and addictional DMAs, co-processors... the GPU is small and the CPU is equal.

2) Every hardware feature in DirectX you can use in OpenGL... in fact OpenGL is even better in performance than DirectX but that's another useless comparision here because PS4 didn't use neither of these APIs. At hardware level the PS4's GPU supports DX 11.2+ too and you don't need licence to use the DX features in GPU.

3) Seems like you are making wrong clains here.

4) In fact one console is showing better looking games than another... I won't tell you



kirby007 on 16 September 2013
thismeintiel said:
I'm just going to quote myself from the other thread, since it works for this thread, as well.

"The PS4 is more powerful. Just get over it. If you really don't like the fact you are supporting/buying the weaker of the two, than buy a PS4. If you're fine with the weaker system, because you don't mind it and/or like the exclusives, then just purchase it and stop trying to downplay the performance gap. Because the gap is there, and it WILL BE noticeable. Maybe not so much on multi-plats, but definitely on exclusives."

So, Xbox guys, it's time to start hyping up your exclusives more, not starting and contributing to threads that use unreliable sources, who obviously know little about tech, to try and downplay the performance gap.

NIGGA IF I SAY THE PS4 IS STRONGER THAN THE XBOX ONE, U BEST BELIEVE THAT SHIT



 "I think people should define the word crap" - Kirby007

Join the Prediction League http://www.vgchartz.com/predictions

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Scoobes on 16 September 2013
Zappykins said:
drkohler said:

And this is how silly rumours start, essentially.....

Care to tell us where you got the "The CPU is significantly larger" nonsense from?

"as is the number of co processors": When did dma controlers suddenly turn into "processors"? Of course MS needed a lot of secondary stuff on their SoC, it is not like the esram works on its own, and noise cancellation mics and speech recognition require "expensive" hardware, or "co-processors" in MS's words.

"development of DirectX 11.2 over it's competitors" - Yikes, MS owns directX, it is THEIR driver for WndowsX, there is NO competitor developing directX. Fortunately the competition doesn't really care about directX at all, since they have their own drivers to take care of (which, as an added bonus, can work much closer to hardware if they chose so).

So None of it "is lost as it whooshes over people's heads", because the competitiors just don't bother about what MS is doing, they try to solve their own problems instead. While we get daily (almost hourly) updates from some MS pr guy on just how great their console is, the competitor just quietly trundles along, This should give you a good idea about who is in a better position right now.


1. Care to tell us where you got the "The CPU is significantly larger" nonsense from?  The only non-since is denying it.  Fact, go back and watch both reveals.  In both they tell you the size of the chip. The Microsoft one is much larger than the one from Sony.  FACT: Sony tells you this themselves.  Sorry if this upsets you, but it comes directly from both companies.

2. OpenGL is one of many competitors to DirectX, and there are others.  Sony is even trying to imply they have 'DirectX 11.x" type stuff on their GPU.  Clearly, they want to say it is similar while implying it's the same.  It is not.  Even Nintendo tried to imply the same stuff during the WiiU reveal.  Unless they purchase a license from Microsoft, which isn't without some possibility.  There is an old saying, if you can't be 'em, join 'em.

3. "is lost as it whooshes over people's heads "  Apparently it is.  Read some more.  People have been jumping into threads where they don't really know anything, and just want to down play their perceived  'enemy' system.  People are under the impression you can say, "No, it is not!" and that equals a debate.  It's tedious and embarrassing for the posters.  Perhaps they should stay on threads that do not upset them?

4. "This should give you a good idea about who is in a better position right now." Good, there we go, something we can agree on.  Surely you have seen that one gaming company has been showing games running at 1080P at 60FPS and the other two have not.  Let's see, what's the company that makes the Xbox One game Forza 5?

1. The CPUs are the same size. The APU/SOC in the X1 is larger, mainly because of the 32MB of eSRAM (around 1.6 billion of the 5 billion transistors).

2. DirectX on the X1 doesn't have any compeitors as MS aren't going to suddenly let you use OpenGL for the console. Both Sony and Nintendo have spoken about having DirectX 11.2 feature set. You could equally say that X1 has an OpenGL4.4 feature set.

3. Considering your earlier posts in this thread this sounds like you.

4. Wow, way to take something completely out of context, lol.




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drkohler on 16 September 2013
Zappykins said:


Care to tell us where you got the "The CPU is significantly larger" nonsense from?  The only non-since is denying it.  Fact, go back and watch both reveals.  In both they tell you the size of the chip. The Microsoft one is much larger than the one from Sony. 

OpenGL is one of many competitors to DirectX, and there are others.  Sony is even trying to imply they have 'DirectX 11.x" type stuff on their GPU.  Clearly, they want to say it is similar while implying it's the same.  It is not.  Even Nintendo tried to imply the same stuff during the WiiU reveal. 

Ok, I see you have some problems understanding technology jargon, so let me explain:

The size of the XBox One SoC is 363mm^2. The SoC contains all the stuff that features the grunt work of the consoles like cpu,gpu, dma, audio, etc stuff. We don't know the size of the PS4 SoC but we can assume it is smaller by a few 10mm^2 (basically no big esram). Now, inside both SoCs there is a cpu, in both cases it is the SAME two regular Jaguar cores. So spelled out for you: the SAME cpus => the SAME cpu size.

DirectX, like OpenGl and whatever Nintendo calls it for the WiiU is driver software that allows programmers to use the feature sets of the gpu hardware. On the PC, it is one of the software layers between WindowsX and your graphics hardware. Neither Sony nor Nintendo run Windows on their consoles, so it would make no point at all to license DirectX. Now lets say there is a DirectX call that says PaintXY(x,y,rgb). which draws a Pixel at xy with color rgb. If you looked into Sony's or Nintendo's driver software, you would find there is a call that says PaintXY(x,y,rgb), which draws a Pixel at xy with color rgb. You see: Exactly the same thing, although it has nothing to do with DirectX ! Even it were called SonyPaint(rgb,x,y) or NintendoPaint(bgr,x,y), it would be exactly the same as the DirectX function!



Zappykins on 16 September 2013
ethomaz said:

Zappykins said:

Care to tell us where you got the "The CPU is significantly larger" nonsense from?  The only non-since is denying it.  Fact, go back and watch both reveals.  In both they tell you the size of the chip. The Microsoft one is much larger than the one from Sony.  FACT: Sony tells you this themselves.  Sorry if this upsets you, but it comes directly from both companies.

OpenGL is one of many competitors to DirectX, and there are others.  Sony is even trying to imply they have 'DirectX 11.x" type stuff on their GPU.  Clearly, they want to say it is similar while implying it's the same.  It is not.  Even Nintendo tried to imply the same stuff during the WiiU reveal.  Unless they purchase a license from Microsoft, which isn't without some possibility.  There is an old saying, if you can't be 'em, join 'em.

"is lost as it whooshes over people's heads "  Apparently it is.  Read some more.  People have been jumping into threads where they don't really know anything, and just want to down play their perceived  'enemy' system.  People are under the impression you can say, "No, it is not!" and that equals a debate.  It's tedious and embarrassing for the posters.  Perhaps they should stay on threads that do not upset them?

"This should give you a good idea about who is in a better position right now." Good, there we go, something we can agree on.  Surely you have seen that one gaming company has been showing games running at 1080P at 60FPS and the other two have not.  Let's see, what's the company that makes the Xbox One game Forza 5?

1) CPU has nothing to do with APU size... CPU in both have the same size... they are identical... the APU is "larger" in Xbone because 32MB eSRAM (almost 40% of the diesize) and addictional DMAs, co-processors... the GPU is small and the CPU is equal.

2) Every hardware feature in DirectX you can use in OpenGL... in fact OpenGL is even better in performance than DirectX but that's another useless comparision here because PS4 didn't use neither of these APIs. At hardware level the PS4's GPU supports DX 11.2+ too and you don't need licence to use the DX features in GPU.

3) Seems like you are making wrong clains here.

4) In fact one console is showing better looking games than another... I won't tell you

"OpenGL is even better in performance"  out of the thousands of versions since DirectX 6, there is one single claim that supports this theory, for games. It was made by one company using a 4 year older version of DirectX vs OpenGl.  And four years is a long, long time in the IT world. Care you back up with claim with some facts? 

"wrong clains" That is a serious allegation, especially from you. Please tell my where my 'Clains' are wrong.  I would like to fix that.  I hate when my clains go wrong, are they anything like Pikmen?  or are they more like Fur-bees or Ewoks. 

"showing better looking games than another... I won't tell you"  Awe, I wish you would.  We are a nice group, and you would be welcomed to the group, given tasty ice cream, but I would watch out for the sleepy candy.  I've heard some strange rumors about that.



 

Really not sure I see any point of Consol over PC's since Kinect, Wii and other alternative ways to play have been abandoned. 

Top 50 'most fun' game list coming soon!

 

Tell me a funny joke!
ethomaz on 16 September 2013

Zappykins said:

"OpenGL is even better in performance"  out of the thousands of versions since DirectX 6, there is one single claim that supports this theory, for games. It was made by one company using a 4 year older version of DirectX vs OpenGl.  And four years is a long, long time in the IT world. Care you back up with claim with some facts?

"wrong clains" That is a serious allegation, especially from you. Please tell my where my 'Clains' are wrong.  I would like to fix that.  I hate when my clains go wrong, are they anything like Pikmen?  or are they more like Fur-bees or Ewoks.

"showing better looking games than another... I won't tell you"  Awe, I wish you would.  We are a nice group, and you would be welcomed to the group, given tasty ice cream, but I would watch out for the sleepy candy.  I've heard some strange rumors about that.

1) http://www.geek.com/games/valve-gets-l4d2-running-faster-on-linux-than-windows-1506985/

"Valve’s explanation for the difference is that OpenGL just runs cleaner than DirectX. It has less overhead than DirectX for performing the same tasks"

It is a known fact between developers that DirectX have more overhead... you can google more.

2) You said CPU is bigger on Xbone... absolutely false.

3) First the games in one console are upping the performance while other is getting worst... the best games (in graphical terms) are in that console...  the Forza game you give example is inferior in graphics to DriveClub... well you can argee Forza runs at 60fps or it have driving physics (I agree) but what will be the new excuse when the final DriveClub game ran at 60fps too? There are chance to that happen... and Killzone runs at 60fps and blow away anything showed for next-gen launch right now.



mjk45 on 16 September 2013
DonFerrari said:
mjk45 said:

I stopped when The omni gamer guys said the PS3 had a superior GPU compared to the 360 to argue their case.


Whenever anyone talk about secret sauce and things that can't be proved but they use to say how much more powerfull it is you don't even need to read it all to now its probably bs and with weak argumentation.

My reason for stopping was the whole PS3 -360 argument was the PS3 had the superior CPU but the 360 the better GPU and unified memory , but those guys use as their comparison point  ,PS3 with it's superior GPU  to compare PS4 versus Xbone relative benifits when infact  the 360 GPU was better .



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