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Forums - Microsoft Discussion - Penello specifies why X1vsPS4 performance difference is overstated

Xenostar said:
DJEVOLVE said:
Xenostar said:
For someone that says specs dont matter, hes so desperate to prove that its almost equal in power.



My god, give it a break.


Im not the one giving constant press releases to prove something that he thinks is unimportant in the first place. 

He's not giving any press releases.  He's responding to questions from the gaming community.  It's the gamers that won't give it a break.  Between a number of websites and bloggers, they have basically made up a whole string of guesstimates on how everything the new consoles will do performance wise.  Because the internet never sleeps, it seeems to keep growing and even the mainstream media started going down that path.  So, he(M$) had to strart answering these questions more directly to try and debunk the information out there.

The truth is, the PS4 is probably more powerful.  The point he is making, is that it's not 30-50% more powerful.  Either way, all of the guesstimates are just that until the systems launch and people can see the games for themselves.  Even when the inevitable system teardowns occur, the results of basic system performance won't be the tell all either.  It will come down to the developers and how the make the games.



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dsgrue3 said:
If they were actually confident they wouldn't need to continually make defensive posts about their box. And honestly, I have no idea why they are - XBO games speak for themselves.

All this paper analysis is kinda moot at this point.

He's right by coming out and clarifying because some groups think that a lie told 1000 times become truth and that might influence future Xbox buyers in their decision to acquire One. Better have him talk than submit to others silence request.



landguy1 said:
Xenostar said:
DJEVOLVE said:
Xenostar said:
For someone that says specs dont matter, hes so desperate to prove that its almost equal in power.



My god, give it a break.


Im not the one giving constant press releases to prove something that he thinks is unimportant in the first place. 

He's not giving any press releases.  He's responding to questions from the gaming community.  It's the gamers that won't give it a break.  Between a number of websites and bloggers, they have basically made up a whole string of guesstimates on how everything the new consoles will do performance wise.  Because the internet never sleeps, it seeems to keep growing and even the mainstream media started going down that path.  So, he(M$) had to strart answering these questions more directly to try and debunk the information out there.

The truth is, the PS4 is probably more powerful.  The point he is making, is that it's not 30-50% more powerful.  Either way, all of the guesstimates are just that until the systems launch and people can see the games for themselves.  Even when the inevitable system teardowns occur, the results of basic system performance won't be the tell all either.  It will come down to the developers and how the make the games.


Thats cool if hes actually giving out information that we didnt know to correct people.

But he needs to stop talking about the performance differnce between X1 and PS4, Im sure he knows his beans about X1 but he knows fuck all about PS4 they wont have PS4 devkits, they can highlight every trick there pulling to maximize performance, but doesnt mean Sony dont have similar tricks as well to maximize there spec. 

Developers that have had there hands on both have said there is a noticable performance difference when they start developing on them.



Xenostar said:
landguy1 said:
Xenostar said:
DJEVOLVE said:
Xenostar said:
For someone that says specs dont matter, hes so desperate to prove that its almost equal in power.



My god, give it a break.


Im not the one giving constant press releases to prove something that he thinks is unimportant in the first place. 

He's not giving any press releases.  He's responding to questions from the gaming community.  It's the gamers that won't give it a break.  Between a number of websites and bloggers, they have basically made up a whole string of guesstimates on how everything the new consoles will do performance wise.  Because the internet never sleeps, it seeems to keep growing and even the mainstream media started going down that path.  So, he(M$) had to strart answering these questions more directly to try and debunk the information out there.

The truth is, the PS4 is probably more powerful.  The point he is making, is that it's not 30-50% more powerful.  Either way, all of the guesstimates are just that until the systems launch and people can see the games for themselves.  Even when the inevitable system teardowns occur, the results of basic system performance won't be the tell all either.  It will come down to the developers and how the make the games.


Thats cool if hes actually giving out information that we didnt know to correct people.

But he needs to stop talking about the performance differnce between X1 and PS4, Im sure he knows his beans about X1 but he knows fuck all about PS4 they wont have PS4 devkits, they can highlight every trick there pulling to maximize performance, but doesnt mean Sony dont have similar tricks as well to maximize there spec. 

Developers that have had there hands on both have said there is a noticable performance difference when they start developing on them.

I agree, he is kind of doing what everybody is doing, speculating when it comes to the PS4 hardware.  He does mostly focus on what the XB1 can do, but gets suckered into responding to these questions.  Sometimes it's better to just quit trying to explain something that can't be explained yet.



Xenostar said:
For someone that says specs dont matter, hes so desperate to prove that its almost equal in power.


LOL, yep. it is also typical Spin, pure denial.



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It's funny how people try so hard to make him the bad guy comparing specs. To me he is actually proving his point saying that design is more relevant than raw specs. So yeah specs are not important even after is spec explanation. He makes that very clear.



He's responding to PS4 because everyone else is comparing the X1 to PS4. Maybe rabid fanboys need to stop spreading BS about the X1 they know"fuck all about". The only people qualified to argue about the X1 and PS4 are those that have built them. The community "knows fuck all about". If he is putting himself out there than what he says can be taken as word. This really is getting so tiresome. Seems like they need to have some kind of console debate just to make these online forum fanboys happy.



endimion said:
It's funny how people try so hard to make him the bad guy comparing specs. To me he is actually proving his point saying that design is more relevant than raw specs. So yeah specs are not important even after is spec explanation. He makes that very clear.


It is also very clear the ps4 has more power, no amount of spin changes that. ou can also argue design with the ps4, it is widely known it is very well designed from a bandwidth and development perspective.



According to the bottleneck theory a system is as fast as its slowest part.

If data flows through faster esram and ddr3, its one system, even if they handle different parts of the data (unless data sent to esram is calculated and sent to/ from a cpu/hdd/whatever outside the system, not taking away anything from the DDR) simply put if my left wheel can handle 200mph and the right 63mph, my car can handle 200 not 263. Thus on paper bandwidth is not a sum, if they take in and output data within the same system.

Two ddr3 modules do not equal a system with twice the bandwidth. Its more complicated than that in the bottleneck but its not a sum of speed.

 

Imagine you are on a train going 150mph. you can run x mph. On the train you can run, so relatively/locally for a brief period you will be travelling 150+x on paper. But the system will still have a max speed of 150 and will not reach the destination faster.



binary solo said:
Is it really true that 68gb/sec on 8 GB DDR3 + 204gb/sec on 32 MB ESRAM = 272gb/sec in the same way as 176gb/sec on 8GB GDDR5?

I don't know how RAM capacity and RAM speed relate. Intuitively it feels like you just can't simply add the 2 speeds together and that's your total RAM speed in an apples to apples comparison with 1 unified RAM speed. Can someone who actually knows stuff please explain?

 

"The CPU contained within the PS4 is running stock speeds, 1.6ghz compared to Microsofts 1.75 after an upclock - 150mhz does not make up for the different in number of CUs, and (aptly ignored by Albert) the difference in ROP units - hence why even with the 150mhz upclock, the Xbox One is still way behind in terms of raw power - To see just how little difference 150mhz makes, go into your bios and bump your clock speed up to be 150mhz faster, you will see framerates climb barely 2fps at best - most modern CPUs clock to at least 400mhz higher than stock as an average, with some people bumping that to over 900mhz.

But seriously, before you try and tell me im wrong, he is comparing 1.6 to 1.75 and claiming its 10% faster, asside from being factually wrong (10% would be 1.76ghz), it also compares the cpus on the most basic of levels, which is a stupid thing to do, even more so given that theyre APUS - compare a 2ghz celeron to a 2ghz pentium to see why.

Last but not least adding up the ddr3 and esram speeds to get a higher number is universally seen as a retarded pr stunt by those with half a brain because theoretical peaks for different ram types DO NOT COMBINE - just like if you put two 3ghz xeons in a server, it does NOT mean that the server is now running at 6ghz, its running at 3ghz with additional cores - adding ddr3 and the tiny space allotted by esram does not work, even for "on paper" results - you cannot fill the 8gb of ddr3 with the esram fast enough without the esram being bottlednecked, esram could not be used for a large majority of game resources, where as GDDR5 can be used for just about anything at the cost of slightly higher latency."